Ok, I have a question.
Being a person born in a muslim household, I was not given the option of choosing what religion I want to follow, or attracted to. Now when I am old enough to make my own decisions, I am told that a person can conviniently convert to Islam, but not vice-versa.
Supposidly, there is some rule in Islam, that dis-allows people to convert out of it. I prefer being an atheist, regardless of my reasons, but why am I to be killed if I make that decision, when in the first place I am not muslim by choice.
This is very confusing to me. It seems that on one hand, Islam gave me the power of moving in the religion, but it doesnt allow me to choose what I want to follow.
-Sahil
Full Version: Why can\'t I convert out.
You should more importantly ask. WHY islam will condemn u to eternal hellfire for abandoning it. lol.
If you don't beleive in Tauheed, you are already out of Islam. You don't have to believe in Islam for quiting it. Your point shows that you do beleive in Islam that why you believe that you should b =e killed after conversion.....
It's not you are giving a choice or what ever.... People have interpreted the thought there way. Islam do allow you to learn other religions. If you find something in other religion which is good and acceptable to Islam then you are allowed to accept and make it your part of life... Islam is a complete religion. Just try to learn other religion and decide for your self how complete it is. But condition is don't talk to mullahs since they misguide and do nothing good mostly.... Learn Islam and judge it your self. Put a bad point here then think of converting yourself. You should be glad that you took birth in family who are muslims.
It's not you are giving a choice or what ever.... People have interpreted the thought there way. Islam do allow you to learn other religions. If you find something in other religion which is good and acceptable to Islam then you are allowed to accept and make it your part of life... Islam is a complete religion. Just try to learn other religion and decide for your self how complete it is. But condition is don't talk to mullahs since they misguide and do nothing good mostly.... Learn Islam and judge it your self. Put a bad point here then think of converting yourself. You should be glad that you took birth in family who are muslims.
You were born muslim, what will you die? muslim, atheist, christian, jew, etc.. , muslims who leave there religion, are the ones who have no sense.., its because they feel no happiness, they feel terror, that is true, this world was not meant to be perfect. for kafirs this is heaven, but for us muslims we have to go through this world and face its challenges, leaving islam is a big mistake, that you will regret.
good point Samira, but what if I dont want to believe in hell, or heaven. Why cant I enjoy what is here, and be happy with it, rather than constantly worrying about, oh my god, what is going to happen to me in the 'after-life' ?
No body is stoping you from convert. When you don't beleive then you are not muslim any more. HAve fun.... Phir milain gay Jahanum main 
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Samira Saeed
You should more importantly ask. WHY islam will condemn u to eternal hellfire for abandoning it. lol. |
No, dont put words into his/her mouth; ideas into his/her head...just answer the quuestion he/she has openly posed.
Quit the tired BS routine of making posts go the way YOU want them to go. The 'sheep' on MP accept it, some of us see you for the fraud you are.
There is no compulsion in religion. You seem to have a misunderstanding. Islam is a very simple and straightforwad, just, religion. If a non-muslim strongly believed in the oneness of God, and acknowledged the prophets and prophet Muhammad (saws) he would automatically have become a muslim by heart and being...there is no 'formal conversion', except for making it official through reciting the Kalimah in the masjid.
It is mentioned in a Hadith that a person who was a true Christian or Jew and then accepts Islam will receive a double reward. This is a great favour that Allah had awarded them. Muslims by birth do not have this advantage. However if a muslim breaks out of islam, it is regarded as a horrendous act, one which is unforgivable. It is a barkat of Allah that he has blessed you to be born into a muslim family; you are granted wisdom, freedom of choice and expression, and pushed for individuality and uniqueness.
Allah Ta'ala says, 'Ask the people of Dhikr (knowledge) if you do not know.' May i ask what troubles or concerns you are encountering with islam? Maybe there is something that you are having misconceptions about or haven't received an acceptable response from people yet? Have you gone to the masjid or an islamic institute where you could take your confusions to?
Truly islam gives many mediums and offers many paths of enlightment. Being able to question your faith is one such great gift from Allah ta'ala, for Insha'Allah you will find the right answer that touches your heart.
Did not Allah say Fa'arghlam Innahu Laailaaha Ilallaah (47:19) translit: Prove [yourself] through knowledge that there is no God but Allah.
Don't be blinded by confusion, go the extra mile to talk it out.
Jazak Allau khairun
It is mentioned in a Hadith that a person who was a true Christian or Jew and then accepts Islam will receive a double reward. This is a great favour that Allah had awarded them. Muslims by birth do not have this advantage. However if a muslim breaks out of islam, it is regarded as a horrendous act, one which is unforgivable. It is a barkat of Allah that he has blessed you to be born into a muslim family; you are granted wisdom, freedom of choice and expression, and pushed for individuality and uniqueness.
Allah Ta'ala says, 'Ask the people of Dhikr (knowledge) if you do not know.' May i ask what troubles or concerns you are encountering with islam? Maybe there is something that you are having misconceptions about or haven't received an acceptable response from people yet? Have you gone to the masjid or an islamic institute where you could take your confusions to?
Truly islam gives many mediums and offers many paths of enlightment. Being able to question your faith is one such great gift from Allah ta'ala, for Insha'Allah you will find the right answer that touches your heart.
Did not Allah say Fa'arghlam Innahu Laailaaha Ilallaah (47:19) translit: Prove [yourself] through knowledge that there is no God but Allah.
Don't be blinded by confusion, go the extra mile to talk it out.
Jazak Allau khairun
So dont worry about it. No one's asking u to worry. Play the Inter Heavenly lottery like everyone else is playing. lol. You think these guys know they will goto heaven or hell? They all are just shooting in the dark. You have our resident, 'metaphors personified' group. You have your 'literal' group. You have your 4th Calilph loyalists group, you have your 'go with the flow' group. You have your god knows how many other groups. lol. All playing the lotto. Doing what they 'THINK' is righteous and just, in the name of Allah.
I say LIVE your life. You were sent to LIVE on this Earth. Sins and Sawaabs DO not make a man. Thats what I say. And I dont think allah thinks only to this extent. LIVE your life. Know that death is a certainty. Do what your heart says is right. I am sure u will be guided in many more ways than you may even know of.
I say LIVE your life. You were sent to LIVE on this Earth. Sins and Sawaabs DO not make a man. Thats what I say. And I dont think allah thinks only to this extent. LIVE your life. Know that death is a certainty. Do what your heart says is right. I am sure u will be guided in many more ways than you may even know of.
Why Do you think islam is a fast growing religion? Allah guides them who believe completley.
apostacy is leaving your faith to another faith.
Why is Apostacy such a terrible crime in Islam?
Apostasy (Irtidad) in Islam
?If a person is raised in a society which protects his soul from the impurities of kufr and shirk, or if a person is shown the Right Path accepts it willingly - can such a person reject the Islamic faith? Is he allowed to apostate (become murtad)? Can he declare that he does not believe in God, Prophet Muhammad and the Day of Judgement?
Once a person enters into the fold of Islam, the rules change. As soon as you become a Muslim by your own choice, you are expected to submit yourself to Allah totally and completely. "O You who believe! Enter into submission, kaffatan!" (2:208) he surrenders the right of making decisions to Allah and His Messenger. No believing man and no believing woman has a choice in their own affairs when Allah and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36)
Now even the question of apostasy, irtidad or deserting of one's faith, for a Muslim, becomes a shar'i/religious issue - even in this issue he is governed by the laws of Islam. And Islam clearly says: No! You cannot become an apostate.After coming into the fold of Islam, rejection of the fundamentals is not tolerated. If there are doubts in your mind about the fundamental beliefs of Islam, then discuss, question, debate, study and solve them BUT you are not allowed to leave Islam, desert your own fitra!
On the issue of openly rejecting Islam, Islam cannot just stand aside and see one of its followers going astray. It would allow discussions to understand and solve the problems, but not allow its followers to lower themselves from the sublime status of "surrendering to the will of Allah-Islam" to the status of those "who have hearts but do not understand, ears but do not hear, and eyes but do not see."
apostacy is leaving your faith to another faith.
Why is Apostacy such a terrible crime in Islam?
Apostasy (Irtidad) in Islam
?If a person is raised in a society which protects his soul from the impurities of kufr and shirk, or if a person is shown the Right Path accepts it willingly - can such a person reject the Islamic faith? Is he allowed to apostate (become murtad)? Can he declare that he does not believe in God, Prophet Muhammad and the Day of Judgement?
Once a person enters into the fold of Islam, the rules change. As soon as you become a Muslim by your own choice, you are expected to submit yourself to Allah totally and completely. "O You who believe! Enter into submission, kaffatan!" (2:208) he surrenders the right of making decisions to Allah and His Messenger. No believing man and no believing woman has a choice in their own affairs when Allah and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36)
Now even the question of apostasy, irtidad or deserting of one's faith, for a Muslim, becomes a shar'i/religious issue - even in this issue he is governed by the laws of Islam. And Islam clearly says: No! You cannot become an apostate.After coming into the fold of Islam, rejection of the fundamentals is not tolerated. If there are doubts in your mind about the fundamental beliefs of Islam, then discuss, question, debate, study and solve them BUT you are not allowed to leave Islam, desert your own fitra!
On the issue of openly rejecting Islam, Islam cannot just stand aside and see one of its followers going astray. It would allow discussions to understand and solve the problems, but not allow its followers to lower themselves from the sublime status of "surrendering to the will of Allah-Islam" to the status of those "who have hearts but do not understand, ears but do not hear, and eyes but do not see."
i rekcon you reside in Pakistan.........well don't profess your beliefs...........you don't have to be declare to the world your an athiest......if that works for you......stick wiht it.....
AND TO EVERYONE WHO"S GONNA OBJECT: lack or religion does not equal lack or morals.....but if you would like to debate that......I AM open to it
AND TO EVERYONE WHO"S GONNA OBJECT: lack or religion does not equal lack or morals.....but if you would like to debate that......I AM open to it
Well Sahil, whats stopping you from 'opting out'? If you dont believe, then don't believe! If you fearing some of 'divine' retribution, then it is clear that you stil 'believe' in something!!!
If your 'belief' in aethiesm is genuine, what are you scared of.
You cant have it both ways-on one hand say' I was born into it; I no longer want to follow blindly; i dont believe, YET on the other hand you fear that by NOT believing you are committing some sort of sin? I mean, you cant lose a game your not playing, can you???
If your 'belief' in aethiesm is genuine, what are you scared of.
You cant have it both ways-on one hand say' I was born into it; I no longer want to follow blindly; i dont believe, YET on the other hand you fear that by NOT believing you are committing some sort of sin? I mean, you cant lose a game your not playing, can you???
firstly, how well do you know islam? you might have followed the rituals blindly because you have been told to do so as a child but have you ever pondered over their significance and reason? reading the Quran with MEANING is also very important.before making hasty decisions, KNOW your faith.according to what you said, you believe in NO God. you might try to go through the endless debates on the existence of God (regardless of any religion).
secondly, why would you bother about the ruling on the apostates if you believe that islam is not the right thing for you? being born in a muslim family is a privilage on its own because we never had to go 'truth-hunting'.not knowing the worth of your good fortune is quite a shame,isnt it?
LuXoR, i do appreciate your post but we do have to consider these ahadith too:
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said : “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794). What is meant by religion here is Islam (i.e., whoever changes from Islam to another religion).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
secondly, why would you bother about the ruling on the apostates if you believe that islam is not the right thing for you? being born in a muslim family is a privilage on its own because we never had to go 'truth-hunting'.not knowing the worth of your good fortune is quite a shame,isnt it?
LuXoR, i do appreciate your post but we do have to consider these ahadith too:
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said : “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794). What is meant by religion here is Islam (i.e., whoever changes from Islam to another religion).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
Just a correction. Atheism isnt a Religion. ahem.
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Samira Saeed
Just a correction. Atheism isnt a Religion. ahem. |
Some Think It is
Atheism is not a religion. And Athiest SAY that. Its the rejection of ALL religions. Its the rejection of BELIEFS.
Does Islam need doubters? I dont think so (my opinion). Islam needs those committed 100%. Besides, Samira could do with some support once in a while.
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Samira Saeed
Just a correction. Atheism isnt a Religion. ahem. |
hadith mentions "leaves his religion and splits from the jamaah"
opting for atheism would be leaving islam, right?
This Is an article:
Dear Br. Y. As-salaamu alaykum. With all honesty and objectivity, the cases when a "Muslim" converts to another religion are so rare and fall within one of three categories: 1-The person is totally ignorant about Islam and was never raised as a Muslim. 2-A starving person receiving food aid (since many non-Muslim missionaries hand in food in one hand and their religious books in the other hand). And 3-Forced conversion during wars to escape persecution. That's why, we never hear of a Muslim scholar denouncing Islam but there are literally thousands of Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindus (etc.) scholars, in addition to scientists who have denounced their faith to accept Islam. Therefore, your wife's sister's case probably falls within the realms of those who were never raised as Muslims, and therefore, your challenge is to reduce her ignorance and misconceptions and bring her back to Islam. You have to see what made her denounce Islam and target that particular area. Since there is overwhelming material on Muslim/Christian dialogues, you can make use of it. Try Sheikh Ahmad Deedat or Dr. Jamal Badawi's tapes and books, but also make use of the books of Christian scholars (priests) who have denounced their own faith and reverted to Islam. Good luck. Thank you for asking and God knows best.
source: islamicity
Dear Br. Y. As-salaamu alaykum. With all honesty and objectivity, the cases when a "Muslim" converts to another religion are so rare and fall within one of three categories: 1-The person is totally ignorant about Islam and was never raised as a Muslim. 2-A starving person receiving food aid (since many non-Muslim missionaries hand in food in one hand and their religious books in the other hand). And 3-Forced conversion during wars to escape persecution. That's why, we never hear of a Muslim scholar denouncing Islam but there are literally thousands of Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindus (etc.) scholars, in addition to scientists who have denounced their faith to accept Islam. Therefore, your wife's sister's case probably falls within the realms of those who were never raised as Muslims, and therefore, your challenge is to reduce her ignorance and misconceptions and bring her back to Islam. You have to see what made her denounce Islam and target that particular area. Since there is overwhelming material on Muslim/Christian dialogues, you can make use of it. Try Sheikh Ahmad Deedat or Dr. Jamal Badawi's tapes and books, but also make use of the books of Christian scholars (priests) who have denounced their own faith and reverted to Islam. Good luck. Thank you for asking and God knows best.
source: islamicity
Oxygen you need to cool down! Let Samira speak what she will! The reason no one wants to say anything is time can be spent doing better things than playing her mind games! As well, for the original post, believe in what you want to believe in, because in the end the truth will be revealed! If you want to convert that is your choice! No one is putting a gun to your head to stay muslim! Being muslim is by choice not force! Proud I think you may have the translation confused I don't think the Prophet (peace be upon him) literally meant to execute those who convert to another religion after Islam. Force conversion or forcing someone to believe when they disbelieve in itself is haram because you are taking away a persons right of freedom of religion. Islam is the only religion that embraces co-existence and tolerance!
Cool as ICE, Canadian saab! Cool as ICE!
Blindly did I follow Islam. Yes, that is correct.
Do I 'believe' in what Islam told me to do? Nopes. Why would I do it? Because I am raised that way.
Being born in a muslim home, deprived me the option of leaving Islam. Question still remains, 'why' ?
Do I 'believe' in what Islam told me to do? Nopes. Why would I do it? Because I am raised that way.
Being born in a muslim home, deprived me the option of leaving Islam. Question still remains, 'why' ?
Islam does not deprive its followers of anything. If you want to change your faith, it is up to you. I just hope you don't turn into a hypocrite. It is better to disbelieve and be honest than to be a hypocrite and live a lie! Do not feel that you have to give lip service to this great faith! You don't!
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Sahil
Blindly did I follow Islam. Yes, that is correct. Do I 'believe' in what Islam told me to do? Nopes. Why would I do it? Because I am raised that way. Being born in a muslim home, deprived me the option of leaving Islam. Question still remains, 'why' ? |
I look at things in terms of Faida and Nuqsaan.
Tell me. If u continue an islamic life. Are you in a loss? If for nothing than just imagine the sorrow your parents must feel. And since THEY believe in Islam, they will also believe what will happen after they die. They will be asked and held accountable for YOUR departure.
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Sahil
Blindly did I follow Islam. Yes, that is correct. Do I 'believe' in what Islam told me to do? Nopes. Why would I do it? Because I am raised that way. Being born in a muslim home, deprived me the option of leaving Islam. Question still remains, 'why' ? |
I Just hope you find the right way, which you were once in, your ignorance in islam, hes led you out, and how will you get back in when the truth is revealed?
| QUOTE | ||
Originally posted by Samira Saeed
I look at things in terms of Faida and Nuqsaan. Tell me. If u continue an islamic life. Are you in a loss? If for nothing than just imagine the sorrow your parents must feel. And since THEY believe in Islam, they will also believe what will happen after they die. They will be asked and held accountable for YOUR departure. |
All I have say is if you don't believe in Islam than how can you continue an Islamic life? You are then only pretending in front of your parents you are only building an illusion around yourself and your parents.
I think the problem here seems to be in you blindly following Islam without really comprehending WHAT EXACTLY it is that you believe in and why?
As previously stated, you just cannot quit a system that you were raised to follow just because you lack sufficient background knowledge about th entire structure. Take time, explore the world, rememeber there's no compulsion in religion. Only if you open-mindedly and open-heartedly research will you Insha'Allah find the true path of fullfillment.
wasalaam
As previously stated, you just cannot quit a system that you were raised to follow just because you lack sufficient background knowledge about th entire structure. Take time, explore the world, rememeber there's no compulsion in religion. Only if you open-mindedly and open-heartedly research will you Insha'Allah find the true path of fullfillment.
wasalaam
| QUOTE |
|
I look at things in terms of Faida and Nuqsaan. Tell me. If u continue an islamic life. Are you in a loss? If for nothing than just imagine the sorrow your parents must feel. And since THEY believe in Islam, they will also believe what will happen after they die. They will be asked and held accountable for YOUR departure. |
If I dont believe in something , then following it further will only lead me to be a greater hypocrite wouldnt it ?
Every one should be accountable for themselves, not for what their siblings, parents or children are doing.
Islam is not being fair when it holds my parents responsible for me. Would it be their fault if I reject Islam ?? Why should it be ? They brought me up thinking that I would be a 'good' muslim, only feeding me with the ideas they know to be right. But what about other religions, they havent done any comparative analysis on them.
Khair.. coming back to the topic, what truth ? You think believing in Islam is truth ? Had you been christian, you would still tell me the same thing that christianity holds the true meaning of life, and 'after-life' and then again try to bound me into the whole notion of hell n heaven. Only atheism allows me to live the life I have. The life that I can enjoy. So, looking at the faida n Nuqsan, wouldn't you say that I am better off gaining everything here than worrying myself to death over errmm.. burning in hell ?
Yes Sahil- just dont pretend to be a Muslim anymore. And dont keep having 'guilt trips'. Dont worry about your parents. If there is a 'Day of Judgement', they will be more concerned about themselves than you-and if there isnt-well its all immaterial.
Either way, you are old enough (and have the free will) to make your own decisions-if you feel threatened that your parents wont approve, then you are not ready to make that decision.
Put it this way, they would be more concerned if you told them that you were 'GAY'.
Either way, you are old enough (and have the free will) to make your own decisions-if you feel threatened that your parents wont approve, then you are not ready to make that decision.
Put it this way, they would be more concerned if you told them that you were 'GAY'.
There are many conditions attached to that statement. If for example the parents deliberately kept their children in ignorance/set a bad example/cursed Islam/were living against Islamic teachings etc etc etc.
If they have brought up their children in an Islamic way (eg taught them basic Islamic values/sent them to masjid to learn quran/namaz/observed Ramadan/celebrated Eid etc etc etc, then if the kid upon becomng an Independant thinker, ready to excercise his free wil decides that 'Nope-Islam is not for me', then the parents have done all they could have, and the child CANNOT blame his parents for him ending up an aetheist.
Seems quite straight forward to me-in Sahil's case, the parents have fulfill their duties, so Sahil Mate, noone to blame- you're on your own. You made your bed, now be an acha bach and lie in it!
If they have brought up their children in an Islamic way (eg taught them basic Islamic values/sent them to masjid to learn quran/namaz/observed Ramadan/celebrated Eid etc etc etc, then if the kid upon becomng an Independant thinker, ready to excercise his free wil decides that 'Nope-Islam is not for me', then the parents have done all they could have, and the child CANNOT blame his parents for him ending up an aetheist.
Seems quite straight forward to me-in Sahil's case, the parents have fulfill their duties, so Sahil Mate, noone to blame- you're on your own. You made your bed, now be an acha bach and lie in it!
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by o x y g e n
You made your bed, now be an acha bach and lie in it! |
Thanks Oxygen but, correction : its time for wakeup, not lying back
its a British saying 'you've made your bed, now lie in it', basically means once you have made a decision, go with it-no looking back, no blaming others, its just you'.
Best of luck in your new found freedom
Best of luck in your new found freedom
Bismillah
Salaam
In noway whatsoever are you parents liable for the sins you have committed. After a being is of baligh age (age of mental stability) he is to blame for whatever is done. As for the acts a child commits as an adolescent, nor he or his partents are at fault because an adolecent is masoom (not in the sense of infallibility).
The only time the parents will be to blame is when they have directly taught the child no good.
I don't see why you are so worried about burning in hell when you don't believe in it.
The quote "knowledge is the key to success" has not been emphasized on for no reason. As i have been reading, i have noticed the deficiency in the knowledge of Islam from the "atheists".
As for atheism, it has been made a religion. A religion is not but a set of beliefs. People have made a set of beliefs (not believing in a God to be specific) and tend to follow it. They also invite others to follow suite.
Before commenting on a matter, whether it be religion or science, it is advised to study into it in detail. I would advise you to do the same then if you feel the need of becoming an atheist, you automatically are one. A muslim is NOT a born muslim. Anybody who claims as such is not a true muslim. A muslim is one who accepts the beliefs from the heart. Not really believing from the heart automatically makes you a non-believer.
Well according to your beliefs there is no hell nor heaven but you seem to be worried about something. I think you should read and read with an open mind and heart. Question what you wish and if you still don't feel you are satisfied, so be it
Allah hafiz
Salaam
In noway whatsoever are you parents liable for the sins you have committed. After a being is of baligh age (age of mental stability) he is to blame for whatever is done. As for the acts a child commits as an adolescent, nor he or his partents are at fault because an adolecent is masoom (not in the sense of infallibility).
The only time the parents will be to blame is when they have directly taught the child no good.
I don't see why you are so worried about burning in hell when you don't believe in it.
The quote "knowledge is the key to success" has not been emphasized on for no reason. As i have been reading, i have noticed the deficiency in the knowledge of Islam from the "atheists".
As for atheism, it has been made a religion. A religion is not but a set of beliefs. People have made a set of beliefs (not believing in a God to be specific) and tend to follow it. They also invite others to follow suite.
Before commenting on a matter, whether it be religion or science, it is advised to study into it in detail. I would advise you to do the same then if you feel the need of becoming an atheist, you automatically are one. A muslim is NOT a born muslim. Anybody who claims as such is not a true muslim. A muslim is one who accepts the beliefs from the heart. Not really believing from the heart automatically makes you a non-believer.
Well according to your beliefs there is no hell nor heaven
but you seem to be worried about something. I think you should read and read with an open mind and heart. Question what you wish and if you still don't feel you are satisfied, so be it
Allah hafiz
Sahil-
You seem to have widely misunderstood the concept of Jannah and Jahannum. It is not solely meant for eternal uplifment/doom, but rather serves as a provocation to bring out our inner strenght and logical ability to judge right from wrong. Reward and Punishment is a system of life, it has been ever since mankind was created and it is not going to leave us.
Islam stretches forgiveness and MERCY throughout, that doesn't mean that you have to be stets reminded of every little fault you do, but that you put your trust into Allah and are confident with yourself. If you KNOW you did not right (and think from a non-religious perspective here....i.e. after you swore upon somebody you may have guilty feelings afterwards that's very parallel to having done something which was undesirable of being a good citizen/muslim) and you know you wont repeat it or lets say you DO feel guilty-- well Allah is Al-Rahman and Al-Raheem, he is most gracious, most merciful, he KNOWS ur intentions, hence he WILL Isha'Allah forgive you. Islam doesn't doom non-muslims, we believe in justice.
Let me give you an example. There was once a man who was born into a muslim family. He drank, he gambled, he did all sorts of things he shouldn't have done being a righteous muslims. Though he did believed in Allah, he couldn't be bothered less with being doomed in hellfire...once day he passed away. Allah looked over his lifetime record and confronted him with his deeds. He ordered the angels to take him to the Hellfire.....as the angels approached him, the man whirrled them off and shouted "Stay back! I know i did wrong, i should not have, but this much courage i have to walk to the Hell myself!". This delighted Allah so much, that thereupon he ordered the gates of jannah to be made assessible to him.
This story teaches us two things with the same idea involing MERCY. Nobody is doomed, everybody is born PURE, it is the later stages in life that we choose that determine our destiny. Allah loves you, he would not want bad for you. You don't have to life your life being worried about every minor little detail, you must be confident in yourself, as long as you acknowledge that you have not done right........this LITTLE feeling of sincere reptentance or insecurity is Insha'Allah enough to make Allah forgive you. Justice WILL be served, everythign is balanced out, there is no ONLY right or ONLY wrong.
Allah is Most Gracious and Most Merciful. He says in the Noble Qur'aan, 'Oh My Slaves! Do not despair. Verily Allah will forgive all sins.'
In one Hadith, Rasulullah (saws) is reported to have said, 'If a person has sins equivalent to the foams of the sea and pebbles on a desert, Allah's mercy is so encompassing that He will forgive every sin.' In another narration, it is mentioned that Allah will speak secretly to one of His slaves on the day of Qiyaamat and remind him of all his sins. After the person will confess his sins, Allah will say to him, 'I concealed your faults in the world, today too, I will conceal your faults. Go in Jannah, I have forgiven you.'
The above mentioned are few of many Ahaadith explaining the extent of Allah's Mercy. However, Allah says, 'Verily Allah will not forgive a person who ascribe partners (commit Shirk) with Him.' The only sin that is unforgivable is Kufr (disbelief) and Shirk (ascribing partners).
Again, this quotation may not leave any credible note to you, since you 'do not belief' ...but it is simply to show you that you should confront your fear or irritation. If you were presented with an islam that you cannot confide in; think about WHY NOT? Look at the stars, the plants, the pregnant women, the flowers, the sun, YOUSELF...research other religions and what you yourself hold of LIFE. Only then will you understand what that is YOU want. Maybe you have misunderstood something in islam, wouldn't you rather want to invest time upon finding the true path for urself, rather than cutting off your lines with it just because you do not want to go the extra-mile and THINK critically if whether or not something suits you and why, or why not?
You seem to have widely misunderstood the concept of Jannah and Jahannum. It is not solely meant for eternal uplifment/doom, but rather serves as a provocation to bring out our inner strenght and logical ability to judge right from wrong. Reward and Punishment is a system of life, it has been ever since mankind was created and it is not going to leave us.
Islam stretches forgiveness and MERCY throughout, that doesn't mean that you have to be stets reminded of every little fault you do, but that you put your trust into Allah and are confident with yourself. If you KNOW you did not right (and think from a non-religious perspective here....i.e. after you swore upon somebody you may have guilty feelings afterwards that's very parallel to having done something which was undesirable of being a good citizen/muslim) and you know you wont repeat it or lets say you DO feel guilty-- well Allah is Al-Rahman and Al-Raheem, he is most gracious, most merciful, he KNOWS ur intentions, hence he WILL Isha'Allah forgive you. Islam doesn't doom non-muslims, we believe in justice.
Let me give you an example. There was once a man who was born into a muslim family. He drank, he gambled, he did all sorts of things he shouldn't have done being a righteous muslims. Though he did believed in Allah, he couldn't be bothered less with being doomed in hellfire...once day he passed away. Allah looked over his lifetime record and confronted him with his deeds. He ordered the angels to take him to the Hellfire.....as the angels approached him, the man whirrled them off and shouted "Stay back! I know i did wrong, i should not have, but this much courage i have to walk to the Hell myself!". This delighted Allah so much, that thereupon he ordered the gates of jannah to be made assessible to him.
This story teaches us two things with the same idea involing MERCY. Nobody is doomed, everybody is born PURE, it is the later stages in life that we choose that determine our destiny. Allah loves you, he would not want bad for you. You don't have to life your life being worried about every minor little detail, you must be confident in yourself, as long as you acknowledge that you have not done right........this LITTLE feeling of sincere reptentance or insecurity is Insha'Allah enough to make Allah forgive you. Justice WILL be served, everythign is balanced out, there is no ONLY right or ONLY wrong.
Allah is Most Gracious and Most Merciful. He says in the Noble Qur'aan, 'Oh My Slaves! Do not despair. Verily Allah will forgive all sins.'
In one Hadith, Rasulullah (saws) is reported to have said, 'If a person has sins equivalent to the foams of the sea and pebbles on a desert, Allah's mercy is so encompassing that He will forgive every sin.' In another narration, it is mentioned that Allah will speak secretly to one of His slaves on the day of Qiyaamat and remind him of all his sins. After the person will confess his sins, Allah will say to him, 'I concealed your faults in the world, today too, I will conceal your faults. Go in Jannah, I have forgiven you.'
The above mentioned are few of many Ahaadith explaining the extent of Allah's Mercy. However, Allah says, 'Verily Allah will not forgive a person who ascribe partners (commit Shirk) with Him.' The only sin that is unforgivable is Kufr (disbelief) and Shirk (ascribing partners).
Again, this quotation may not leave any credible note to you, since you 'do not belief' ...but it is simply to show you that you should confront your fear or irritation. If you were presented with an islam that you cannot confide in; think about WHY NOT? Look at the stars, the plants, the pregnant women, the flowers, the sun, YOUSELF...research other religions and what you yourself hold of LIFE. Only then will you understand what that is YOU want. Maybe you have misunderstood something in islam, wouldn't you rather want to invest time upon finding the true path for urself, rather than cutting off your lines with it just because you do not want to go the extra-mile and THINK critically if whether or not something suits you and why, or why not?
Thanks for backing up what I was saying Ali_H.
Parents do enough for us-then we go looking to blame them for OUR mistakes!
Parents do enough for us-then we go looking to blame them for OUR mistakes!
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by friend
it seems to me parents will/can be blamed on judgement day if they haven't done their job properly until the baligh age of kid.. |
A parent is a parent all his/her lifetime. I don't think we can compare it with the legal system of the West, where a person is "freed" of the responsibilities when the child gets 18.
It is just that parents have more obligations when the child is young. At that time, it is their duty to tell the child of the fundamentals of religion.
Well, there are many people better than me who can answer your question.
I had a small observation, which I pointed out.
Please don't be sarcastic, we are here to share our views. And it is good for all of us.
What I have heard is that when the child becomes ready for marriage, his/her adult age is started.
I had a small observation, which I pointed out.
Please don't be sarcastic, we are here to share our views. And it is good for all of us.
What I have heard is that when the child becomes ready for marriage, his/her adult age is started.
I didn't do research upon this, but i'm having hypothetical asumptions: Consider the stage of marriage. According to islamic Shari'ah, a person has the individual right to choose his/her prospective spouse when he/she enters adulthood...it's a somewhat similar case as this, does it say ANYWHERE what exactly the 'adult' age is? :huh I suppose it means to refer to those MATURE people who are able to think and judge independantly on their own, usually who happen to be eighteen(?) and up...i-dont-know-so-dont-come-throwing-stones-at-me. It's just a building block of provocative-thought.
PA a child is no longer a child when he or she turns mature which is around 18. Parents can't go to university with you or watch over every little thing you do. At one point, the child will become an adolcesent than a young adult (over 18). By age 12 on wards a child should be able to notice the difference of right and wrong in simple terms (unless a learning disability is present). At, 18 legally you should be mentally mature enough to make most of your own decisions in other words become more independant and less depandant on your parents. Their is a saying "Eventually the baby birds will have to leave thier parents nest". For some it's before marriage such as those who go aboard to study or look for work! In conclusion, you are ultimately responsible for the life you choose to live!
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by LuXoR
...i-dont-know-so-dont-come-throwing-stones-at-me. |
How can anybody DARE do this?
I guess there is no age defined as "adulthood" in Quran or Sunnat. According to some people (I have absolutely no idea), children reach adulthood at different age in different regions.
Sorry for using quotations in above posts, people.
Canadian,
What I meant to say was there is no age defined when parents can TOTALLY absolve of their responsibilities.
Of course, after sometime a person becomes responsible for his/her own actions. But still parents can not leave him alone on the notion that they are not responsible for him anymore.
Canadian,
What I meant to say was there is no age defined when parents can TOTALLY absolve of their responsibilities.
Of course, after sometime a person becomes responsible for his/her own actions. But still parents can not leave him alone on the notion that they are not responsible for him anymore.
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Prince Ali
I guess there is no age defined as \\"adulthood\\" in Quran or Sunnat. According to some people (I have absolutely no idea), children reach adulthood at different age in different regions. |
I don't know were your getting your info from, dude. I think the reason no age is defined in Quran or Sunnat is not because of someone living in a different part of the world, I think as humans we all mature at the same ages. I think in certain cultures and socities have different opinions on when someone can be considered mature or independant!
Originally posted by Canadian
--->I don't know were your getting your info from, dude. <---
Believe me. I did not concoct it myself.
As I said, I don't know if it is right or wrong, but this is what some people say.
--->I don't know were your getting your info from, dude. <---
Believe me. I did not concoct it myself.
As I said, I don't know if it is right or wrong, but this is what some people say.
Well, I think to a certain extent parents have to leave you on your own at one point! That means you have to make your decisions and you are the one who will be held for accountability!
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Prince Ali
Originally posted by Canadian --->I don't know were your getting your info from, dude. <--- Believe me. I did not concoct it myself.
As I said, I don't know if it is right or wrong, but this is what some people say. |
I was not assigning you any blame in my statement! I just have not heard anyone say that!
LOL! Aap tou hummay khaamkhwa ko sharminda karahi hain; hum molvan kahan se aaye? Bas gunegaar tou hum bhi hain......par koshish zaroor hai key apni zindagi islami tour sey jee jaye.
Luxor! What's up? You seem to be editing two of my post in this thread! You have not changed any of the wording but still!:huh :huh
Yes, because for once excessive quoting slows the uploading time of the thread, secondly your message was strikingly clear even without the quoting, thus my wise judgement of anihilation.
Thank you Luxor, I should have more confidience in my work. I seem to get my messages across clear as crystal!
Muslim parents WILL be held accountable if they DO NOT impart islamic knowledge, ways and procedures to their offsprings. Allah will ask them, "Why u didnt teach ur kid how to pray?" "Why didnt u teach your kid how to read the Quran?" I've seen countless families here in the US who cant be bothered!
They have some maulvi teaching them how to recite the Quran. Ask these children, who was the 4th Kaliph, they'll ask... wtf is a Kaliph! We used to learn these history and events and battles, all thru out our school days, in the gulf, that is. These parents THINK thats all there is to it. Teach the kids how to pray, teach them how to recite the Quran, and bas. You know what I see when I see these kids? I dont see the FEAR of allah in them. I dont see them EVER asking Allah for anything. Its as if they are oblivious to Allah. And I put the blame SQUARELY on the parents. These kids arent adults. they are just 12-14 upto 15! You should ALWAYS know where you are coming from and WHERE you are going.
They have some maulvi teaching them how to recite the Quran. Ask these children, who was the 4th Kaliph, they'll ask... wtf is a Kaliph! We used to learn these history and events and battles, all thru out our school days, in the gulf, that is. These parents THINK thats all there is to it. Teach the kids how to pray, teach them how to recite the Quran, and bas. You know what I see when I see these kids? I dont see the FEAR of allah in them. I dont see them EVER asking Allah for anything. Its as if they are oblivious to Allah. And I put the blame SQUARELY on the parents. These kids arent adults. they are just 12-14 upto 15! You should ALWAYS know where you are coming from and WHERE you are going.
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