Altaf Hussain With Pj Mir On Ahmadis Discrimination In Pakistan, Please stay on the video topic on hand. Options

[d-tox..ed]

1) I'm going to call you guys out on this 'Seal vs Last' business. When you seal something - anything, an envelope, a ziploc bag etc. it implies closure. The only way to get something out of that bag perse, is to "open" the seal.

2) You can however intrepret that in any which way you like because that is little compared to the fact that a Messiah was suppose to be a sign of the End of Times. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, has come, lived and gone yet the world still continues to go on! That is the biggest, most fundamental truth that labels his claims as a Messiah, false.

Yet you ignore all of that and continue to believe in him.

3) The only 'Islamic belief' this idea of a Messiah is based on is a Hadees, that is it. Unfortunately, God has not mentioned any such thing in the Qur'an. If Allah (SWT) does not declare these things in his own words like he's done with everything else, people like myself can not take these accounts into consideration.

I would rather be safe than sorry. I have a God to answer to, like yourself, but if he questions me about "why" I believed in a Messiah that he didn't speak of, I will not have an answer, which puts me at a disadvantage and possibly doomed for hell. Considering the fact that I already have racked up on more than enough 'sins' (), I can't afford to add to my list!

BTW Detox, welcome back! =))

Jee Baaji...thank you I am back!

2
How long it took the greatest of Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad Mustapha SAW to spread message of Islam and humanity to accept him? Was it all done in 100 years?
How do you the end of the time means when Messiah comes and die everything will finish? Whats the point of Messiah then?

Hence your point saying Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S) came and claimed to be Messiah and passed away and Qayamat didnt come means he is not the Messiah...unless you proov that Qayamat should have happened by now.

3
You meant Mahdi is not mentioned in Quran and not Messiah?

1
its a big debate...just two lines wont do...i cannot complete a reply in two lines....but if you are interested and if this has not been discussed before then I can add more to this subject.

[Inc0gnito]

2
How long it took the greatest of Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad Mustapha SAW to spread message of Islam and humanity to accept him? Was it all done in 100 years?

Less than 25 years. Read history. Your Qadiyani Prophet couldn't do it in over 100 years! Even though he plagiarized Muhammad's(saw) Message.

[MzAflatoon]

Jee Baaji...thank you I am back!

You didn't even tell me where you went? Kahan se ghoom phir ke ayen hain Janab?

2
How long it took the greatest of Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad Mustapha SAW to spread message of Islam and humanity to accept him? Was it all done in 100 years?

The purpose of Mohammad (SAW)'s existence is not the same as a Messiahs. The former had to establish a new religion altogether. The latter has to revive the very essence of that religion. He doesn't have to go through the turmoil of establishing a new religion.

Jo main baat keh rahi hoon woh yeh hai ke ek Massih is liye ayenge takay, tammam ummah unite hojaye aur ek saath 'march' karti hui agay chalay/future main progress karay. There's suppose to be that distinction between the believer vs the non believer. Not Shia vs Sunni vs Ahmadi for ex.

How do you the end of the time means when Messiah comes and die everything will finish? Whats the point of Messiah then?

Well, I didn't mean .. foran se duniya khatam hojayegi lekin agar Messih ka ana, duniya ke khatam hone ki nishani hai tou kuch tou aese imkaan nazar anay chayeh they na? Lekin MGA khudhi fauth hogaye aur duniya ussi terha chal rahe hai jese unke anay se pehle thi (halaat ke baat ker rahi hoon. Actually pehle se ziadah tou aaj halaat kharab hochuke hain). Kia yeh aapke liye saboot nahi hai?

Hence your point saying Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S) came and claimed to be Messiah and passed away and Qayamat didnt come means he is not the Messiah...unless you proov that Qayamat should have happened by now.

I don't have to do anything related to proving something. God has already done that for us. That Hadees was said in context of the End of Times. Why would God send the LAST messenger (as per your definition) if the world is not even going to come to an end?!

Ek araf aap kehte hain ke yeh Massih hain, what's the purpose of a Massih according to you? And when is he suppose to arrive?

3
You meant Mahdi is not mentioned in Quran and not Messiah?

Neither are mentioned in the Qur'an.

1
its a big debate...just two lines wont do...i cannot complete a reply in two lines....but if you are interested and if this has not been discussed before then I can add more to this subject.

It's alright man, don't worry about it. Lets just keep these discussions to our own understandings and knowledge.

This post has been edited by MzAflatoon: Oct 21 2009, 08:06 PM

[modern_newton]

DTox few simple question a person might ask before having believe in Mirza G

What Mirza Ghulam Ahmad contributed to the betterment of muslim world? What he did to improve the situtations of mulims?

If tomorrow a Guy (let say X ) do same claim what mirza g did, then would you open your heart for him? If not ,why not? How you will differenciate between false claim and genuine claim? Can i say that you are close hearted because you dont accept the claim of guy X?

[d-tox..ed]

DTox few simple question a person might ask before having believe in Mirza G

What Mirza Ghulam Ahmad contributed to the betterment of muslim world? What he did to improve the situtations of mulims?

If tomorrow a Guy (let say X ) do same claim what mirza g did, then would you open your heart for him? If not ,why not? How you will differenciate between false claim and genuine claim? Can i say that you are close hearted because you dont accept the claim of guy X?

Indeed its a good question...however few lines cannot justify an answer..i think i am using this line pretty often now...lolz...

ok rather then copy pasting material why dont you read some material from following books. Obviously if you are interested..

Introduction to some of the books by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) where you will find a lot of debates with Christians, Hindus and Arya Samaj:

http://www.alislam.org/library/links/80-books.html

You can also visit the following link to read about his claims and Seerat:

http://www.alislam.org/topics/messiah/index.php

Or if you want I could write/paste reems of information which I persoanlly think you may not even read...however if you are interested then let me know and I will put up as much as I can.

You didn't even tell me where you went? Kahan se ghoom phir ke ayen hain Janab?

Holland and Belgium - A Road Trip.

The purpose of Mohammad (SAW)'s existence is not the same as a Messiahs. The former had to establish a new religion altogether. The latter has to revive the very essence of that religion. He doesn't have to go through the turmoil of establishing a new religion.

Again this is your limited understanding alongside InCognito that Islam was established everywhere within the life of Holy Prophet SAW. A Christian could come and say the same thing that with the death of Holy Prophet SAW the Islam is also over. However they fail to understand the meaning of Khilfat and barkat and without failing to say this further but Allah had revealved to Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S) that Khilfat will remain with us till end of the times hence this will continue to spread the message of Islam and Ahamdiyyat.

Jo main baat keh rahi hoon woh yeh hai ke ek Massih is liye ayenge takay, tammam ummah unite hojaye aur ek saath 'march' karti hui agay chalay/future main progress karay. There's suppose to be that distinction between the believer vs the non believer. Not Shia vs Sunni vs Ahmadi for ex.

isse pehle aap zyaada confuse hon...zara 73 firqon waali Hadith pe zaroor ghorr keejjye ga.

Well, I didn't mean .. foran se duniya khatam hojayegi lekin agar Messih ka ana, duniya ke khatam hone ki nishani hai tou kuch tou aese imkaan nazar anay chayeh they na? Lekin MGA khudhi fauth hogaye aur duniya ussi terha chal rahe hai jese unke anay se pehle thi (halaat ke baat ker rahi hoon. Actually pehle se ziadah tou aaj halaat kharab hochuke hain). Kia yeh aapke liye saboot nahi hai?

ye bhi janaab aapki limited thinking hai. Perhaps you should put more emphasis on WW1 WW2 and possibly think with all Nuclear Bombs the possibility for WW3 and Jamaat Ahmadiyya has always been warning people that its not far.

I don't have to do anything related to proving something. God has already done that for us. That Hadees was said in context of the End of Times. Why would God send the LAST messenger (as per your definition) if the world is not even going to come to an end?!

The hadith does not say end of the times means straight end...hence making up these meanings is incorrect.

Ek araf aap kehte hain ke yeh Massih hain, what's the purpose of a Massih according to you? And when is he suppose to arrive?
Neither are mentioned in the Qur'an.
It's alright man, don't worry about it. Lets just keep these discussions to our own understandings and knowledge.

BTW When I say Massih I mean Metaphorical 2nd coming of Jesus (A.S) who actually was a Messiah for Jews and will always be.

Less than 25 years. Read history. Your Qadiyani Prophet couldn't do it in over 100 years! Even though he plagiarized Muhammad's(saw) Message.

bhaaya mien na aapko bohat hi achi or asaan zubaan waali koi Islamic History ki book reccomend karoon ga taake aap apne ilm mien izaafa karr sakkien...lekin ye jissne bhi afwaa chori hai ussne aapke nanhe zehen ke saath kaafi zyaadti ki hai...Islam is still spreading and will continue to Spread Inshallah.

[Nara-e-Mastana]

Insha Ji and other who want to know the role of Mehdi in Islam Completed on Mohammad PBUH, please read the last thread on the same topic...it is explained there...no need to repeat here again...

Regarding the issue of "Seal Of Prophets"....Can you tell me where it is written in Quran or Hadess that "Seal of Prophets" means "Last Law bearing Prophet"...isn't it the brain child of MGA....this definination is introduced my MGA isn't it...

Why didn't God mention it clearly...I mean both the terms are so different...why didn't God or Prophet Mohammad PBUH mentioned it...

If this is only explained by MGA...then why should we believe in it...
Don't you thing MGA played with words just the make room for himself...


--

[Inc0gnito]

bhaaya mien na aapko bohat hi achi or asaan zubaan waali koi Islamic History ki book reccomend karoon ga taake aap apne ilm mien izaafa karr sakkien...lekin ye jissne bhi afwaa chori hai ussne aapke nanhe zehen ke saath kaafi zyaadti ki hai...Islam is still spreading and will continue to Spread Inshallah.

A picture speaks a 1000 words.



Please look at the Islamic dominion upto the death of Muhammad(saw). 632AD

Then Look at the first 3 caliph rule. 632AD - 656AD.
Now you do the math and tell me how many years is that?

[insha_ji]

couple of things here,

1. Naramastana sahib you dont even read my post right. I asked you define the meaning of a prohpet i didnt ask the role of mehdi.

2. Seal is meant in holyquran as "Moher" in urdu. Not that thook laga ke lafa band kar diya but seal is to testify something.


This post has been edited by insha_ji: Oct 22 2009, 09:29 AM

[d-tox..ed]

A picture speaks a 1000 words.



Please look at the Islamic dominion upto the death of Muhammad(saw). 632AD

Then Look at the first 3 caliph rule. 632AD - 656AD.
Now you do the math and tell me how many years is that?

arre tumne budhoo samjha hua hai ya? yaa mien andha dikhta hoon...kyoon apne paaon pe kulhaari maar rahe ho....tum shaaid samjh rahe ho mien Rasoolullah SAW ki shaan mien gustaakhi karoon ga ye keh ke Islam 100 saal mien kahan tha or Ahamdiyyat 100 saal mien kahan hai apni tareefon ke pull baandh ke...pull jaao agar ye baat hai to...

to basically aapke map ke mutaabiq Rasoolullah SAW ke zamaane mien Islam sirf Arab takk hi mojood tha...to uss waqt kia population ho gi Arab ki?

[Inc0gnito]

Haha Alright. Before I start, you do realize that we really are going to start making Comparisons of our Prophet Muhammad(saw) and your "Prophet MGA" ? Seems fair enough. This is will be interesting.

According to the Map, Not only was Islam spread thru out Arabia at the time of death of the Prophet (saw), but this particular Area was under complete Islamic Rule. Now. Tell me, how much Area was under complete Ahmadi rule at the time of death of MGA? And how much area do Ahmadi's control today? Do they even survive as a nation someplace? How many years has it been since your Prophet brought his "message" and died?

[Morg]

Aaaah this Ahmadi discussion.

I personally would newer believe in the faith of Ahmadiyya. That is becouse of my personal logic and my own free will. BUT, the pakistani constitution have no right to discriminate a religious minority, be it Ahmadis, Goharshahis, Zikris or any other sect or grouping. The religion is of private matter and is not the business of the state as Jinnah wished. Thereby the second amendment in the Pakistani constitution of 1973 should be repealed.

In Pakistan, people used to kill each others becouse they were not the "correct" sunnis or belonging to a "correct" tariqat or supporting the "wrong" murshid and so on. Who is the right one then when we have so many groupings and everyones leader is blaming the other of beeing kaafir and munafiq...

[d-tox..ed]

Aaaah this Ahmadi discussion.

I personally would newer believe in the faith of Ahmadiyya. That is becouse of my personal logic and my own free will. BUT, the pakistani constitution have no right to discriminate a religious minority, be it Ahmadis, Goharshahis, Zikris or any other sect or grouping. The religion is of private matter and is not the business of the state as Jinnah wished. Thereby the second amendment in the Pakistani constitution of 1973 should be repealed.

In Pakistan, people used to kill each others becouse they were not the "correct" sunnis or belonging to a "correct" tariqat or supporting the "wrong" murshid and so on. Who is the right one then when we have so many groupings and everyones leader is blaming the other of beeing kaafir and munafiq...

InCog now learn something from Mr Morg...kuch seekh lo...abhi bhi time hai...

Haha Alright. Before I start, you do realize that we really are going to start making Comparisons of our Prophet Muhammad(saw) and your "Prophet MGA" ? Seems fair enough. This is will be interesting.

According to the Map, Not only was Islam spread thru out Arabia at the time of death of the Prophet (saw), but this particular Area was under complete Islamic Rule. Now. Tell me, how much Area was under complete Ahmadi rule at the time of death of MGA? And how much area do Ahmadi's control today? Do they even survive as a nation someplace? How many years has it been since your Prophet brought his "message" and died?

well to be frank...in my opinion i would be acting like a munaafiq if i start making this comparison...however if u want me to say what jammat has achieved in 100 years which other muslims havent then i can perhaps do that comparison.

[MzAflatoon]

This is pointless. I'm not even remotely motivated to continue this discussion anymore.


Let me know when all of you are done.

As a side note, I will agree with Morg that a 'citizen' of a particular country should not be subjected to the death penalty because of his/her religious beliefs. Unfortunately, there isn't a fine line between shariah law/civil law in Pakistan. Some Christians have nothing but nice things to say, others have horror stories to share. Some Sikhs enjoy their Pakistan, other's cant even look at a Pakistani with respect.

It's all up in the air. Heck, Pakistani's themselves are suffering. How do you expect people to accept you and your extraordinary belief when they can't even accept themselves? Quite frankly, I've learnt more about Ahmadiyaat and MGA on this forum and through reading his works that I can now consciously decipher that he wasn't the one. Putting all holy notions aside, the world is in too much despair that all of us should be ashamed not only as people but as Muslims. Muslims were suppose to set a standard. After the fall of the Ottoman empire (the last straw), everything fell out of our grasps.

At least, as a consequence of this sect coming into existence, the 73 sect Prophecy has been completed. Now we sit and wait for what's to follow all the while trying to mend our own lives and struggling with the thought of not being able to save the world, one person at a time.

Peace out.

[modern_newton]

Indeed its a good question...however few lines cannot justify an answer..i think i am using this line pretty often now...lolz...

ok rather then copy pasting material why dont you read some material from following books. Obviously if you are interested..

Introduction to some of the books by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) where you will find a lot of debates with Christians, Hindus and Arya Samaj:

http://www.alislam.org/library/links/80-books.html

You can also visit the following link to read about his claims and Seerat:

http://www.alislam.org/topics/messiah/index.php

Or if you want I could write/paste reems of information which I persoanlly think you may not even read...however if you are interested then let me know and I will put up as much as I can.

I wanted you to explain me otherwise it was not difficult for me to visit www.alisllam.org and do research on my own . I wanted to the point answers.
What is the purpose of discussion here if mere links were enough to explain the answers of my questions

This post has been edited by modern_newton: Oct 22 2009, 02:12 PM

[Nara-e-Mastana]

insha ji

I think these pictures are selfexplanatory...it means it is sealed...no entry at all...sealed....and the seal we are talking about is implemented by Allah...





--

This post has been edited by Nara-e-Mastana: Oct 22 2009, 02:12 PM

[Inc0gnito]

well to be frank...in my opinion i would be acting like a munaafiq if i start making this comparison... however if u want me to say what jammat has achieved in 100 years which other muslims havent then i can perhaps do that comparison.

No D-toxed. I want you to Finish what you started. This is what you wrote:
How long it took the greatest of Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad Mustapha SAW to spread message of Islam and humanity to accept him? Was it all done in 100 years?

Go on. Don't be afraid. You can do it.

This post has been edited by Inc0gnito: Oct 22 2009, 02:26 PM

[Morg]

Again. The topic title is about the situation of pakistani minorities, and in this case Ahmadis. We can also include the christians becouse of the recent violence in Gojra and in another town.

Lets discuss theyr situation and not the theology of theyr faiths, that belongs to the religious section. PM a mod and he/She will open such a topic, or rather give life to a already dead one, there is tons of them.


Now back to topic.

Pakistans only nobel prize winner. Were belonging to the Anjuman Ahmadiyya. Although he was first of all a pakistani and his religion was his own. Indeed he was the forerunner to our nuclear programme, which have many contributors (this A.Q. Khan managed to take the whole credit).

It is of shame for Pakistan that the opposition in every parliament since the 1974 amendment have accused the ruling leaders to have some kind of linkage to Ahmadis, as in a try to critisize them and reduce theyr support. Cynical arguments by cynical people and arguments with no logic neither any base. Shaukat Aziz had to testify in the national assembly that he used to attend a certain imam who were of the sunni hanafi fiqh and had to tell that his mother still performed giarwin shareef in order to silence these mullahs in the parliament. This is the fate of a country which have not even sniffed the french recolution neither tried to adopt the aligadh movement.

The nation needs a renewal, and a moderate one.

[d-tox..ed]

No D-toxed. I want you to Finish what you started. This is what you wrote:
How long it took the greatest of Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad Mustapha SAW to spread message of Islam and humanity to accept him? Was it all done in 100 years?

Go on. Don't be afraid. You can do it.

abb tum meri baat ka ulta matlab le rahe ho to issme mera koi kasoor nahin...

insha ji

I think these pictures are selfexplanatory...it means it is sealed...no entry at all...sealed....and the seal we are talking about is implemented by Allah...


--

haha..sir esa na karrien...abb aapne khaas torrse ye tasveerien khenchi hian...hahaha...it was funny.

Again. The topic title is about the situation of pakistani minorities, and in this case Ahmadis. We can also include the christians becouse of the recent violence in Gojra and in another town.

Lets discuss theyr situation and not the theology of theyr faiths, that belongs to the religious section. PM a mod and he/She will open such a topic, or rather give life to a already dead one, there is tons of them.
Now back to topic.

Pakistans only nobel prize winner. Were belonging to the Anjuman Ahmadiyya. Although he was first of all a pakistani and his religion was his own. Indeed he was the forerunner to our nuclear programme, which have many contributors (this A.Q. Khan managed to take the whole credit).

It is of shame for Pakistan that the opposition in every parliament since the 1974 amendment have accused the ruling leaders to have some kind of linkage to Ahmadis, as in a try to critisize them and reduce theyr support. Cynical arguments by cynical people and arguments with no logic neither any base. Shaukat Aziz had to testify in the national assembly that he used to attend a certain imam who were of the sunni hanafi fiqh and had to tell that his mother still performed giarwin shareef in order to silence these mullahs in the parliament. This is the fate of a country which have not even sniffed the french recolution neither tried to adopt the aligadh movement.

The nation needs a renewal, and a moderate one.

ok back to the topic guys...i dont want to see any post apart from the topic...otherwise I will request the best mod around (MZ) to just delete the post and ban the guy....

So Morg some people may be thinking I am you with another nick...look at very first posts what was people reaction...they are not interested in human rights...they are not interested how Ahamdies or Christians or Hindus are treated in Pakistan...they may actually will have some sympathy for Non Muslims but when it comes to Ahmadies they are brain washed and filled up with hatred....tell me how many Ahmadies are involed in terrorists activities..none...we are peaceful people and just want to practice our faith as freely as any other Muslim does.

abhi aap keejjye ga ka kuch logg shuroo ho jaayien gai ke ye phir ronne lagg gaya hai..phir aaik aayae ga kahe ga Dajjal ke Ghulam phir aik Israeli agent kahe ga or teesra Indian agent...they just want to discuss on the topic...aaj kal locks pe baat chal rahi hai..har koi apne ghar ke saste taalon ki tasveerien dikhaa raha hai..

This is pointless. I'm not even remotely motivated to continue this discussion anymore.
Let me know when all of you are done.

As a side note, I will agree with Morg that a 'citizen' of a particular country should not be subjected to the death penalty because of his/her religious beliefs. Unfortunately, there isn't a fine line between shariah law/civil law in Pakistan. Some Christians have nothing but nice things to say, others have horror stories to share. Some Sikhs enjoy their Pakistan, other's cant even look at a Pakistani with respect.

It's all up in the air. Heck, Pakistani's themselves are suffering. How do you expect people to accept you and your extraordinary belief when they can't even accept themselves? Quite frankly, I've learnt more about Ahmadiyaat and MGA on this forum and through reading his works that I can now consciously decipher that he wasn't the one. Putting all holy notions aside, the world is in too much despair that all of us should be ashamed not only as people but as Muslims. Muslims were suppose to set a standard. After the fall of the Ottoman empire (the last straw), everything fell out of our grasps.

At least, as a consequence of this sect coming into existence, the 73 sect Prophecy has been completed. Now we sit and wait for what's to follow all the while trying to mend our own lives and struggling with the thought of not being able to save the world, one person at a time.

Peace out.

knock knock..Baaji wake up...its 8 o clock school nahin jaana...and finally we arrived at school...aaj ka topic...todays topic is to ACTUALLY SPEAK ON THE TOPIC which is on the heading...lolz

I wanted you to explain me otherwise it was not difficult for me to visit www.alisllam.org and do research on my own . I wanted to the point answers.
What is the purpose of discussion here if mere links were enough to explain the answers of my questions

Your question is very generic...

If you can be more precise then I can give you more precise links.

[Nara-e-Mastana]

^de-toxed
Please write something worth reading...do not spam in your own thread...
Answer the questions straight forward...


--

[d-tox..ed]

^de-toxed
Please write something worth reading...do not spam in your own thread...
Answer the questions straight forward...
--

hahah..janaab janaab...aap sawaal karrien gai to mien jawaab doon ga na...aap saari dunia ke taalon ki tasaaveer pesh karte rahien gai or expect karrien gai ke mien samjh jaoon ga ke sawaal kia hai...ese nahin hota insaanon ki dunia mien sir...ainak waale jin ki kahaanian bhool jaayien..

[Inc0gnito]

abb tum meri baat ka ulta matlab le rahe ho to issme mera koi kasoor nahin...

Hahahahah you asked how many years. I told you straight away. Even gave you a direct number. Yet you cannot provide me a SINGLE answer? tsk tsk.

[parang]

Prophet Mohammad SAW's job performance = Spread a new religion in three different religions in a matter of 23 years with establishing a Muslim State with headquarters in an area which he had to leave as a tactical decision with lon terms gains.

MGA 's job performance = ?

PS: It's not a comparison. I want to know what was MGA's achievement.

[u_ahmed]

insha ji

I think these pictures are selfexplanatory...it means it is sealed...no entry at all...sealed....and the seal we are talking about is implemented by Allah...


--

So you mean to imply that there were no more Wali's after Hadhrat Ali (ra) or no more poets after Abu Tamam?

[d-tox..ed]

Prophet Mohammad SAW's job performance = Spread a new religion in three different religions in a matter of 23 years with establishing a Muslim State with headquarters in an area which he had to leave as a tactical decision with lon terms gains.

MGA 's job performance = ?

PS: It's not a comparison. I want to know what was MGA's achievement.

job = to get 1 billion Muslims back on track...its a big job..slowly and steadily we ll reach somewhere...however establishment in 192 countries and 200 Million followers is not a bad start.

Hahahahah you asked how many years. I told you straight away. Even gave you a direct number. Yet you cannot provide me a SINGLE answer? tsk tsk.

just read my reply to parang

So you mean to imply that there were no more Wali's after Hadhrat Ali (ra) or no more poets after Abu Tamam?

o bhaaya inhon nien in sab titles pe taale lagaa dyye hain:

KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA
(seal of poets) was used for the poet Abu Tamam. (Wafiyatul A'yan, vol. 1, p. 123, Cairo)

2.
KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA
again, used for Abul Tayyeb. (Muqaddama Deewanul Mutanabbi, Egyptian p. 4)

3.
KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA
again, used for Abul 'Ala Alme'ry. (ibid, p.4, footnote)

4.
KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA
used for Shaikh Ali Huzain in India. (Hayati Sa'di, p. 117)

5.
KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA
used for Habeeb Shairaazi in Iran. (Hayati Sa'di, p. 87)

Note here that all five people have been given the above title. How could it be interpreted as "last". They did not come and go at the exact same time.

6.
KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA
(seal of saints) for Hazrat Ali (May God be pleased with him). (Tafsir Safi, Chapter AlAhzab)

Can no other person now attain wilaayat, if "seal" meant last?

7.
KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA
used for Imam Shaf'ee. (Al Tuhfatus Sunniyya, p. 45)

8.
KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA
used for Shaikh Ibnul 'Arabee. (Fatoohati Makkiyyah, on title page)

9.
KHATAM-AL-KARAAM
(seal of remedies) used for camphor. (Sharah Deewanul Mutanabbee, p. 304)

Has no medicine been found or used after camphor, if "seal" means "last"?

10.
KHATAM-AL-A'IMMAH
(seal of religious leaders) used for Imam Muhammad 'Abdah of Egypt. (Tafseer Alfatehah, p. 148)

Don't we have leaders today?

11.
KHATAM-ATUL-MUJAHIDEEN
(seal of crusaders) for AlSayyad Ahmad Sanosi. (Akhbar AlJami'atul Islamiyyah, Palestine, 27 Muharram, 1352 A.H.)

12.
KHATAM-ATUL-ULAMAA-ALMUHAQQIQEEN
(seal of research scholars) used for Ahmad Bin Idrees. (Al'Aqadun Nafees)

13.
KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN
(seal of researchers) for Abul Fazl Aloosi. (on the title page of the CommentaryRoohul Ma'aanee)

14.
KHATAM-AL-MUHAQQIQEEN
used for Shaikh AlAzhar Saleem Al Bashree. (Al Haraab, p. 372)

15.
KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN
used for Imam Siyotee. (Title page ofTafseerul Taqaan)

16.
KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN
(seal of narrators) for Hazrat Shah Waliyyullah of Delhi. ('Ijaalah Naafi'ah, vol. 1)

17.
KHATAMAT-AL-HUFFAAZ
(seal of custodians) for AlShaikh Shamsuddin. (AlTajreedul Sareeh Muqaddimah, p. 4)

A "hafiz" is one who has memorised the full arabic text of the Holy Quran. Two of my cousins happen to belong to this category and more people will memorize it.

18.
KHATAM-AL-AULIA
(seal of saints) used for the greatest saint. (Tazkiratul Auliyaa', p. 422)

19.
KHATAM-AL-AULIA
used for a saint who completes stages of progress. (Fatoohul Ghaib, p. 43)

20.
KHATAM-ATUL-FUQAHAA
(seal of jurists) used for Al Shaikh Najeet. (Akhbaar Siraatal Mustaqeem Yaafaa, 27 Rajab, 1354 A.H.)

21.
KHATAM-AL-MUFASSIREEN
(seal of commentators or exegetes) for Shaikh Rasheed Raza. (Al Jaami'atul Islamia, 9 Jamadiy thaani, 1354 A.H.)

22.
KHATAM-ATUL-FUQAHAA
used for Shaikh Abdul Haque. (Tafseerul Akleel, title page)

23.
KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN
(seal of researchers) for Al Shaikh Muhammad Najeet. (Al Islam Asr Shi'baan, 1354 A.H.)

24.
KHATAM-AL-WALAAYAT
(seal of sainthood) for best saint. (Muqaddimah Ibne Khuldoon, p. 271)

25.
KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN WAL MUFASSIREEN
(seal of narrators and commentators) used for Shah 'Abdul 'Azeez. (Hadiyyatul Shi'ah, p. 4)

26.
KHATAM-AL-MAKHLOOQAAT AL-JISMAANIYYAH
(seal of bodily creatures) used for the human being. (Tafseer Kabeer, vol. 2, p. 22, published in Egypt)

27.
KHATAM-ATUL-HUFFAAZ
used for Shaikh Muhammad Abdullah. (Al Rasaail Naadirah, p. 30)

28.
KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN
used for Allaama Sa'duddeen Taftaazaani. (Shara' Hadeethul Arba'een, p. 1)

29.
KHATAM-ATUL-HUFFAAZ
used for Ibn Hajrul 'Asqalaani. (Tabqaatul Madlaseen, title page)

30.
KHATAM-AL-MUFASSIREEN
(seal of commentators) used for Maulvi Muhammad Qaasim. (Israare Quraani, title page)

31.
KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN
(seal of narrators) used for Imam Siyotee. (Hadiyyatul Shee'ah, p. 210)

32.
KHATAM-AL-HUKKAAM
(seal of rulers) used for kings. (Hujjatul Islam, p. 35)

33.
KHATAM-AL-KAAMILEEN
(seal of the perfect) used for the Holy Prophet (pbuh). (Hujjatul Islam, p. 35)

34.
KHATAM-AL-MARAATAB
(seal of statuses) for status of humanity. ('Ilmul Kitaab, p. 140)

We have the "highest, not "last" status.

35.
KHATAM-AL-KAMAALAAT
(seal of miracles) for the Holy Prophet (pbuh). (ibid, p. 140)

36.
KHATAM-AL-ASFIYAA AL A'IMMAH
(seal of mystics of the nation) for Jesus (peace be on him). (Baqiyyatul Mutaqaddimeen, p. 184)

37.
KHATAM-AL-AUSIYAA
(seal of advisers) for Hazrat Ali (R.A.A.). (Minar Al Hudaa, p. 106)

38.
KHATAM-AL-MU'ALLIMEEN
(seal of teachers/scholars) used for the Holy Prophet(pbuh). (Alsiraatul Sawee by Allama Muhammad Sabtain

Now, I am a teacher myself, and you know that I still exist, AFTER the Holy Prophet (pbuh), but I am nowhere close to being able to teach as PERFECTLY as he could or did. How then could he be "last" of teachers? Seal means "best" here and not "last".

39.
KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN
(seal of narrators) for Al Shaikhul Sadooq. (Kitaab Man Laa Yahdarahul Faqeeh)

40.
KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN
used for Maulvi Anwar Shah of Kashmir. (Kitaab Raeesul Ahrar, p. 99)

[Morg]

^^ 200 million number is wrong sir.

[d-tox..ed]

^^ 200 million number is wrong sir.

haan ye sahi keh rahien hain aap 200 to 10 saal pehle tha...abb kaafi high ho ga..i agree...thanks for pointing out..

dont worry i understand what you meant and i m not being meesna...if you think its wrong then...its your thinking...the only thing i can say with all due respect is to change the thinking.

[Inc0gnito]

job = to get 1 billion Muslims back on track...its a big job..slowly and steadily we ll reach somewhere...however establishment in 192 countries and 200 Million followers is not a bad start.

200 Million is MORE than the population of Pakistan. I think you are talking out of your ass.

Getting 1 billion Muslims back on track? hahah The Prophet(saw) had to bring a completely NEW track AND put it on the map. Relatively speaking Mirza Ghulam Ahmad already had the majority of his work all done! Yet he could not bring 1 Billion on the right track in over 100 years!?!? Its not like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was building a new religion - or was he?

[Morg]

haan ye sahi keh rahien hain aap 200 to 10 saal pehle tha...abb kaafi high ho ga..i agree...thanks for pointing out..

dont worry i understand what you meant and i m not being meesna...if you think its wrong then...its your thinking...the only thing i can say with all due respect is to change the thinking.

With all respect. Ahmadi population in the world is way under 200 million. Bahai faith is sometimes regarded as a muslim offshot, even they get special note of how many they are. There is no source which indicates ahmadi population to be 200 million.

[u_ahmed]

Again. The topic title is about the situation of pakistani minorities, and in this case Ahmadis. We can also include the christians becouse of the recent violence in Gojra and in another town.

Lets discuss theyr situation and not the theology of theyr faiths, that belongs to the religious section. PM a mod and he/She will open such a topic, or rather give life to a already dead one, there is tons of them.
Now back to topic.

Pakistans only nobel prize winner. Were belonging to the Anjuman Ahmadiyya. Although he was first of all a pakistani and his religion was his own. Indeed he was the forerunner to our nuclear programme, which have many contributors (this A.Q. Khan managed to take the whole credit).

It is of shame for Pakistan that the opposition in every parliament since the 1974 amendment have accused the ruling leaders to have some kind of linkage to Ahmadis, as in a try to critisize them and reduce theyr support. Cynical arguments by cynical people and arguments with no logic neither any base. Shaukat Aziz had to testify in the national assembly that he used to attend a certain imam who were of the sunni hanafi fiqh and had to tell that his mother still performed giarwin shareef in order to silence these mullahs in the parliament. This is the fate of a country which have not even sniffed the french recolution neither tried to adopt the aligadh movement.

The nation needs a renewal, and a moderate one.

If by anjuman you you lahori sect...then as far as my knowledge goes that is wrong

[Inc0gnito]

Since we are on the topic of MGA's job performance. Lets talk about the "Messiah's" party "Breaking up" into multiple Sects. Was that even SUPPOSED to happen to the final Messiah's followers!? Thats like another tight slap in the face of his followers. Another issue where MGA's ahmadis dropped the ball big time.