Saudi Gang-rape Victim Is Jailed Options

[desiplease]

And what level would that be....? all i said this is sharia in action and your getting your panties in a twist.

[Ali_Imran]

LoL @ the people hating on "Shariah Law", it's funny cuz' I am probably a bigger Saudi hater than DP and Bayern. Her being from the Eastern province and her being a Shia has a lot to do with this. The news isn't surprising, and I hope no one just suddenly woke up to the reality of the Saudi regime. I personally lived there for 11 years my self and know what kind of "Shariah" they implement. I suggest some of you read this thread and this thread - maybe some of you will realize that the Western countries have a lot to do with this mess. Obviously things like supporting, creating, Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, Saddam, etc are things that aren't hidden. The house of Saud (la) allying with the Wahabi thugs, in a you do me a favour I'll do you one thing. Obviously you won't find these Mullahs questioning the Saudi regime, kings and the princes about their wine drinking and prostitutions, and you won't find the Saudi princes too worried about what goes on in the Eastern province of the country either. Mind you it's not just limited to the Eastern province, but pretty much the whole country, but obviously when you start doing takfeer on a sect you don't give more of a damn about them. They'll live it up for the time being because they're best friends with their daddy USA. Anyways, as a member already said:

Your years of thinking have come to nothing, your thoughts are those of an uneducated person. Islam is NOT flawed..as someone said before it's the acts of Muslims, you can't blame a religion for this.

This post has been edited by Ali_Imran: Nov 16 2007, 12:15 AM

[khallaass]

Anyways, as a member already said:
"Your years of thinking have come to nothing, your thoughts are those of an uneducated person. Islam is NOT flawed..as someone said before it's the acts of Muslims, you can't blame a religion for this."

So like, when exactly can we start blaming religion?

[Ali_Imran]

You got nothing better to do?

[khallaass]

You got nothing better to do?

See. This is exactly why I like u. You can spot the trap. lol.

[constantine_demu...]

This is one sided story (One side of the picture), so giving your remarks without looking at the other side of picture is not justify.

For me its more likely Shia & Sunni debate and in between some athiest putting flame in it.

Giving judgement on available decision by keeping in mind that He/She will be responsible for the decision on the day of judgement will never let you to go on wrong way. We actually talk on the bases of emotions, never try to evaluate and varrify by our ownself before giving a verdict.

The Prophet (PBUH) said, "It is enough for a man to prove himself a liar when he goes on narrating whatever he hears."

[Ali_Imran]

If you want to balme a religion or a ceratin incident in the religion; why don't you do this for me:

First of all look up the Shariah Rulings for Muslims - heck in this case even go more specifically the Wahabi Shariah ruling for such a scenario - women being raped. Also find if there is even any punishment for a girl simply being in a car with a na-mehram. Put them in front of you and then put this news in front of you.

If all the actions of the judge are in line with what Shariah Law says, then blame the 'religious ruling' and if anyone supports the Shariah ruling, they will do what-ever it takes to back it up. If what the judge has done is not in line with the actual religious ruling, then on what basis are you exactly blaming a whole religion?

There are things that some people from certain sects may do that are fully in line with their laws, but sometimes someone from another sect or religion could consider them to be doing something very wrong and will "blame the religious law" (not the whole sect/belief still).

So far, no one has done anything of that sort over here.

[khallaass]

If you want to balme a religion or a ceratin incident in the religion; why don't you do this for me:

First of all look up the Shariah Rulings for Muslims - heck in this case even go more specifically the Wahabi Shariah ruling for such a scenario - women being raped. Also find if there is even any punishment for a girl simply being in a car with a na-mehram. Put them in front of you and then put this news in front of you.

If all the actions of the judge are in line with what Shariah Law says, then blame the 'religious ruling' and if anyone supports the Shariah ruling, they will do what-ever it takes to back it up. If what the judge has done is not in line with the actual religious ruling, then on what basis are you exactly blaming a whole religion?

There are things that some people from certain sects may do that are fully in line with their laws, but sometimes someone from another sect or religion could consider them to be doing something very wrong and will "blame the religious law" (not the whole sect/belief still).

So far, no one has done anything of that sort over here.

In the US, OJ simpson was pronounced free, despite a lot of evidence which was against him. The verdict was shocking. The Jury pronounced him Innocent. People blamed the US laws. And the US courts argued that yes, according to our LAW the guy is innocent. Now, I am no lawyer here, but tell me something, if a Saudi Judge, who has to abide by Sharia Law (apparently I am told every country has their OWN sharia law) which is based off Islamic teachings - passes out a ruling, it is automatically approved by the state that this judgement is IN accordance with the Sharia Law aka Islam. So if you think this judgement is wrong, you are in all official capacity saying that yeah, it was the 'version' of Islam used which was wrong. Because the Judge in all his capacity IS officially using Islam to justify his judgement.

Now YOU and a few others allege that it is not Islam at all. And would like proof against this ruling, but we are not lawyers and neither were any of us present in the court room. We do not know the charges that were brought by the woman and if the men too had charges against her. We just read a story and decided, She was raped, she got 200 lashes, the men got a jail term. And we start crying about it.

[desi_nasha]

Just curious, why wasn't the "strange" man who was not a relative lashed or something. Hmm, I wonder if the Saudi Royal family's "special" female friends get the same sort of treatment, if you know what i am saying.

[Ali_Imran]

if a Saudi Judge, who has to abide by Sharia Law (apparently I am told every country has their OWN sharia law) which is based off Islamic teachings - passes out a ruling, it is automatically approved by the state that this judgement is IN accordance with the Sharia Law aka Islam.

Bro, if you read my top post on this page; The house of Saud (la) allying with the Wahabi thugs, in a you do me a favour I'll do you one thing. Obviously you won't find these Mullahs questioning the Saudi regime, kings and the princes about their wine drinking and prostitutions, and you won't find the Saudi princes too worried about what goes on in the Eastern province of the country either, you will realize that the government could care less what decisions these judges come to. The kings aren't bound to Shariah law themselves, not even close, you honestly think they care if some girl gets lashed 200 times?

it was the 'version' of Islam used which was wrong. Because the Judge in all his capacity IS officially using Islam to justify his judgement.

Actually, believe it or not, all the major sects have pretty much the same rulings when it comes to a case like this. You can't find this judgment derived from any ruling, that's what I'm saying. Even the ruling that these judges are supposed to follow; I already stated that the fact she is from the Eastern province and a Shia has more to do with this then anything else. Why? History and past records are proof. There is a long, LONG consistent list of record of these bias decisions - it has less to do with what their religion has to say but more on the hatred towards someone. If you want to argue religious rulings, then sure go ahead, argue suicide bombing, argue takfeer, argue against their shirk rules; these are all part of their beliefs, and I openly argue against them as well. But what on earth ruling says whip a girl cuz' she's been raped by multiple men and then increase this number to 200 times, cuz' of some media thing, I don't even know what the heck that's supposed to mean. And the other article I posted, clearly says she was kidnapped - blackmailed.

Hmm, I wonder if the Saudi Royal family's "special" female friends get the same sort of treatment, if you know what i am saying.

Exactly. . .

This post has been edited by Ali_Imran: Nov 16 2007, 01:23 AM

[khallaass]

I already stated that the fact she is from the Eastern province and a Shia has more to do with this then anything else.

See, thats what I dont understand. How does anyone know who is Shia and who is Sunni and whoever is whatever?! Its not like its something on their birth certificate or passport or anywhere. What if the girl just says.. 'Hello! I am Sunni! or better.. I am Wahabi!' who is to say she is not? I can become Shia or Sunni based on convenience.

[parang]

And what level would that be....? all i said this is sharia in action and your getting your panties in a twist.

I wish i could measure the depth, but like the cure of cancer it is also an extremely far fetched thought. I don't mind people criticizing Islam, but there is a clear difference between criticism and mockery. And you are no way near criticism.

Well I guess you can carry on with these sort of threads as it can lessen the pain of being a Zammi.

This post has been edited by parang: Nov 16 2007, 08:16 AM

[FC BAYERN]

oh please ... stop embarrassing yourself ...
having lived in Saudi Arabia for 16 years, I'm fully aware of the Saudi system and how it's not based on the Shariah ...

women not allowed to drive is a Saudi thing that is not to be found anywhere else in the Muslim world ...

word of advice .... get your facts right and save yourself some embarrassment ...

mate i born in middle east so i guess i have an idea about what the gcc states are all about

among them six states uae seems to be the best but ksa is far from it

i know the women not allowed to drive is a saudi thing but would you know what saudi's follow? exactly shariah

i have been to riyadh jeddah mecca and medina and trust me i would hope that i never make that journey again in my life it was terrible as many would call it hajj

i have lived and studied in the gcc countried for a few years so i would what exactly happens there

i dont think i embarrased myself i reckon i got all my facts straight

[desiplease]

@ Parang
This is some thing i'm trying to understand you and your band of brothers can open up a thread and mock Christianity but in reverse if a Kaffir talks against Islam, well forget the kaffir a muslim speaks against it (scroll up and read one) u start lashing against them.
I guess tolerance is one way street for you guys.

BTW back to the thread so as Follower replied earlier sharia only talks about chopping of fingers.....My question is how is that any different than getting you hand slashed ? Missing fingers vs No hand

@Ali_Imran: So let me get this straight you are blaming Amrika and its dealing with SA for this ruling ?

This post has been edited by desiplease: Nov 16 2007, 09:28 AM

[cozmik_chill]

i have been to riyadh jeddah mecca and medina and trust me i would hope that i never make that journey again in my life it was terrible as many would call it hajj

What made you say your journey was terrible?..i dunno if you are muslim or not, but it's not normal for people to come with such remarks when visiting holy places.

[Caliginous Poet]

Oh my God it's official, FC BAYERN lost, it thinks it has alot of knowledge but really doesn't know what it's saying.

He's on a totally different path in life..too bad.

[Ali_Imran]

How does anyone know who is Shia and who is Sunni and whoever is whatever?! Its not like its something on their birth certificate or passport or anywhere.

Bro, it won't hurt you to do some research off google yourself. Who said it's not written on their passport?

I can become Shia or Sunni based on convenience.

Yah I think you can, but I don't think it's conveniant to be a Shia in this case where you are gonna' get whipped 200 times; I'm sorry not everyone is as strong as iron like you.

among them six states uae seems to be the best but ksa is far from it

Why? Cuz' they got more half-naked ladies walking there?

but would you know what saudi's follow? exactly shariah

Don't you? Did you ever?

My question is how is that any different than getting you hand slashed ? Missing fingers vs No hand

One of the main reasons that one must only cut the fingers is because one of the requirements for praying Namaz is to have your palms on the ground. When you cut the hand, you got no palm left .

@Ali_Imran: So let me get this straight you are blaming Amrika and its dealing with SA for this ruling ?

Where? I'm only saying that the hypocrisy and double standards of America + their "close moderate allies" the Saudis is not something that is hidden from the world. Who is America trying to fool but themselves. It doesn't take a genious to figure out how Saudi funds these Wahabi terrorists and how initially they were openly being funded and supported by the US. The more fundings they get, the more such cases you are going to get.

Saudi gang rape sentence 'unjust'

A lawyer for a gang-rape victim in Saudi Arabia who was sentenced to 200 lashes and six-months in jail says the punishment contravenes Islamic law.

The woman was initially punished for violating laws on segregation of the sexes - she was in an unrelated man's car at the time of the attack.

When she appealed, judges doubled her sentence, saying she had been trying to use the media to influence them.

Her lawyer has been suspended from the case and faces a disciplinary session.

Abdel Rahman al-Lahem told the BBC Arabic Service that the sentence was in violation of Islamic law:

"My client is the victim of this abhorrent crime. I believe her sentence contravenes the Islamic Sharia law and violates the pertinent international conventions," he said.

"The judicial bodies should have dealt with this girl as the victim rather than the culprit."

The lawyer also said that his client his will appeal against the decision to increase her punishment.

Segregation laws

According to the Arab News newspaper, the 19-year-old woman, who is from Saudi Arabia's Shia minority, was gang-raped 14 times in an attack in Qatif in the eastern province a year-and-a-half ago.
. . .

'Personal views'

Mr Lahem accused the court of letting personal views influence its decision:

"It seems that the sentence was influenced by the fact that the woman escalated the issue with her lawyer and also with the supreme judicial authorities," he said.

"This is astonishing because justice is supposed to be independent from all pressures as well as personal considerations, be it a feeling towards the lawyer or defendant herself," he added.

The Arab News quoted an official as saying the judges had decided to punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.

Mr Lahem said that the judges' decision to confiscate his license to work and stop him from representing his client is illegal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7098480.stm

This post has been edited by Ali_Imran: Nov 16 2007, 11:48 AM

[A follower]

One of the main reasons that one must only cut the fingers is because one of the requirements for praying Namaz is to have your palms on the ground. When you cut the hand, you got no palm left.

Thank you for that. I missed that point in my reply.

[glamourous]

What made you say your journey was terrible?..i dunno if you are muslim or not, but it's not normal for people to come with such remarks when visiting holy places.

Maybe he got mugged/met rude people/lost his luggage. Regardless of how "holy" a place might be, a person can still have a terrible trip.

[parang]

^Glam's always there for a comic relief

@DP: Must I remind you the difference between Criticism and Mockrey again? or you or your band of brothers suffer from selective perception.

[TNT_for_Brain]

Rape is worse than murder, seeing the strict laws of Saudi Arabia, attackers should be sentenced to death. "punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media" That's nothing as compared to what happened to this woman. An punishing the victim, Islamic Shariah can never suggest such intructions.

[parang]

Saudi Shariah = Oxymoron.

[desiplease]

So if having both palms on the the ground a requirement then what about the people with deformities ? where one arm is poorly formed i'm not sure what that condition is called but i have seen it.

@DP: Must I remind you the difference between Criticism and Mockrey again? or you or your band of brothers suffer from selective perception.

Yes, please do school this kaffir with your superior internet browsing powers.

[parang]

^Wow I feel threatened.

[desiplease]

I'm in no position to threaten any body

[FC BAYERN]

What made you say your journey was terrible?..i dunno if you are muslim or not, but it's not normal for people to come with such remarks when visiting holy places.

cozmik_chill i guess it wud be hard for u to understand because its a long sorry plus i took the trip back when i was 13

i dont know if you have taken the trip but i took mine in 97 there was a big fire and lot of ppl died and trust me watching dead bodies get shoveled into a truck is no sight! on top of that i got lost and luckily my folks found me 3 days later

i hated the ppl there i fell asleep in the mosque my mind was not on any of the proceedings in a nutshell i wanted to leave and be back home while ppl save up all their lives just to be there

oh yeah im muslim but i have lost all faith my head is down now i just cant look up anymore

mr ali_imran i have never really followed the shariahand probably never will because its brutal and out dated i reckon its about time muslim ppl come to their senses and make changes because we all know that change is the most important thing in this universe

to someone else who said ive lost my mind....oh no i lost my mind in my early years ago its only after the ill fated trip that i regained it

[thematic]

i dont know if you have taken the trip but i took mine in 97 there was a big fire and lot of ppl died and trust me watching dead bodies get shoveled into a truck is no sight! on top of that i got lost and luckily my folks found me 3 days later ...........

oh yeah im muslim but i have lost all faith my head is down now i just cant look up anymore

mr ali_imran i have never really followed the shariahand probably never will because its brutal and out dated i reckon its about time muslim ppl come to their senses and make changes because we all know that change is the most important thing in this universe

to someone else who said ive lost my mind....oh no i lost my mind in my early years ago its only after the ill fated trip that i regained it

many of my close family friends and relatives also went to perform Hajj in 1997 ... they also went through what you went through ... yet, they came back stronger ... maybe you were not supposed to go at an age when it was not even fardh on you ... or maybe you went for all the wrong reasons and as a result never came back with the positive change that Hajj is meant to make in one's lives ... anyway, I'm not here to judge you ... but I will say that certainly your experience by no means stands to undermine the fareedhah (obligation) of Hajj or the hasanah (reward) one gains by discharging the obligation ... so, I'm saddened to hear your experience, but please don't be of the impression that your experience has any bearing on the Muslim ummah ...

on shariah and change ... who says "change is the most important thing in this universe"? ... for Muslims, the most important thing is the adherence to the divine laws - laws that cannot be subject to revision ... they are absolute ... your likes and dislikes can change ... but the divine law will not change ... if anything has to change, it's you .... not shariah

[Acha Bacha]

And you say Islam is a peaceful religion.

RIGHT!

[khallaass]

And you say Islam is a peaceful religion.

RIGHT!

What we mean to say is, Islam is not a religion for wusses.

[Acha Bacha]

What we mean to say is, Islam is not a religion for wusses.

So you think you guys are tough, smart and all that ?

Look whats happening in Arab.

Trouble makers, suiciders and what not.