Emergency In Pakistan Options

[Difference]

But if there were Two of me and One of you.. Your view would be insignificant. Thats what we call Democracy. Its just a game of numbers.

Actually there is some merit to that position, though perhaps we need another thread discussing 'democracy', in its own space, rather than Pakistan.

I agree that democracy is flawed, but in the context of Pakistan, dictatorship isnt a choice either. The Islamic system of khilafat is an example of a system that retains the merits of democracy, while side-stepping its flaws. Alas, I doubt Pakistanis are ready for a 'khilafat' anywhere in the near future, so western democracy (as I shall call it) is perhaps lesser of the two evils.

[khallaass]

hmmm did you read the text of the proclamation of emergency ?
it was imposed by the chief of Army Staff and not the President, and there is no provision in constitution, which gives the Army chief power to declare emergency, in fact, as per constitution such act would be considered an act of treason, punishable by death and that shall be the fate of Musharaf.

So let me ask you this. Who can declare an Emergency in Pakistan? As it turns out for you the Chief of Army Staff is ineffect the President of Pakistan. Or President Elect.

in almost every parliamentary system of democracy the political party is more important than the candidate, the US has a presidential form of government, which is why individual candidates become a bit more prominent, maybe that is where you are confused. As for giving their lives, well I dont know of any political party which has sue side bombers working for it. The majority of workers who are killed, are a result of totalitarian policies of the successive regimes, or are you going to put the blame on workers for being shot by the agencies ???

I know the difference between a Parliamentary system, the only thing is, I cannot seem to distinguish what are the agendas for these political parties? Now I hold a college degree, and I cannot seem to figure out what is it that would make me vote for PPP or PML-N or PTI? Whats their agendas? I dont know. I tried looking it up, I still dont know. I only wonder how do people in Pakistan figure such things out? Do they even HAVE an agenda? Or is it just that such an individual is against the others and thats all that counts? Get my drift?

Just today I heard another bit of typical Pakistani support. The Ex-Chief justice Chaudhry is asking for an uprising, while he sits at home nice and cozy. His supporters say, 'We are willing to die for Iftikhar Chaudhry.' I guess they have no better reason to die for anymore. Thats how support is in Pakistan. Die-Hard. Pakistanis need to think materialistically. Thats how true democracies think. The Most important individual in your life is You.

No it would know, you should study the history of judiciary and judicial activism in Pakistan and elsewhere in the world, and you would realize that popular movements have often given judiciary the courage to take just decisions against the interest of oppressive regimes

In my time in Pakistan, We've paid off judges to make judgements.. So sorry if I disagree with anything about Judicial justice in Pakistan. These corrupt judges do not pass a judgement unless you show them some money. even their english is horrible, I've had to go back and correct judgements which they've signed off on!

Ok this is getting quiet annoying, look I don’t want to offend anyone here, but please guys before you participate in a discussion at least do some research into the topic. The verdict given by the Court was not only that he can land in Pakistan, but that he can stay in Pakistan and lead the campaign of his party for the upcoming elections, in fact the government was clearly directed that he shall not be deported. The so-called "deal" was declared illegal by the courts, as an individual cannot contract him/herself out of fundamental rights, as per the law of Pakistan, so that deal had no legal value in Pakistan.

Where can I read this verdict that the court gave for Nawaz Sharif? So you are saying there was no plea bargin? Or that the plea bargin was invalid? So in this light, why doesnt Nawaz Sharif return to Pakistan? Ofcourse there is that ordinance that can be used and claimed that Nawaz Sharif causes civil unrest and thus detaining him in Pakistan is not an ideal choice. But with our ex Anti Government Biases judges, that would be a tough measure to pass wouldnt it?

No matter how unjust the patriot act may seem, it is an act never the less and Bush administration DID NEED the act, to carry out operations, which otherwise would have been illegal as per the laws of US. On the other hand Musharaf has been on a killing spree in tribal areas and pretty much everywhere else in Pakistan, our agencies have been illegally detaining people on mare suspicions for an indefinite period of time (something which even the patriot act does not allow)

The only people I see getting killed everyday are the Army personnel. I yearn to read news articles where they killed hundreds of these separatists terrorists.
So in essence you want Mushy to go forth and enact some sort of Pakistani Patriot Act, which I am sure given his past, he can get enacted any way he wants. And then you wouldnt have a problem with all these detainees, who have been detained on suspicion charges. Whats weird is that, this too is nothing new in Pakistan. Its been going on since 1947. Anyone can be detained. Only in 2007 we hear people cry about it. What about the 1000s of Soldiers who are being killed by so called Pakistanis in the line of Duty!? The media never show's their plight? The media in Pakistan no longer reports. Its become more of a mass Jerry Springer show, create shock and awe.

do you mean if you had two votes against me having one? well no that would not be democracy...
and if you mean that there will be two people sharing your viewpoint than yes the popular viewpoint will and must prevail as it would be unfair to impose the views of minority over majority (dont know what your point is there though)

That was a jab against precious democracy. Where only the majority counts. Minority is irrelevant. I can envision a number of scenarios where the Minority gets screwed in a Democratic system in Pakistan. A good example is how some religious groups in Pakistan have been screwed over by the majority, Democratically.

This post has been edited by khallaass: Nov 7 2007, 10:07 AM

[vitalsignsguy]

So let me ask you this. Who can declare an Emergency in Pakistan? As it turns out for you the Chief of Army Staff is ineffect the President of Pakistan. Or President Elect.

The office of chief of Army Staff is separate from the office of the President of Pakistan, even if it is the same person who occupies both the offices, their roles are not interchangeable. In other words the authority is not with the individual, but with the office, for example president of Pakistan can call a session of parliament but not the COAS, so such an order has to come from the office of the president and not from the office of COAS.

I know the difference between a Parliamentary system, the only thing is, I cannot seem to distinguish what are the agendas for these political parties? Now I hold a college degree, and I cannot seem to figure out what is it that would make me vote for PPP or PML-N or PTI? Whats their agendas? I dont know. I tried looking it up, I still dont know. I only wonder how do people in Pakistan figure such things out? Do they even HAVE an agenda? Or is it just that such an individual is against the others and thats all that counts? Get my drift?

every political party has an agenda, it is called the Party's manifesto and every party in Pakistan big or small has its manifesto. Based on the political spectrum, PPP is a leftist party and PML is a party of centre right, their agenda is distinctly different from each other, again you cannot use your own lack of knowledge or awareness as an argument.

Just today I heard another bit of typical Pakistani support. The Ex-Chief justice Chaudhry is asking for an uprising, while he sits at home nice and cozy. His supporters say, 'We are willing to die for Iftikhar Chaudhry.' I guess they have no better reason to die for anymore. Thats how support is in Pakistan. Die-Hard. Pakistanis need to think materialistically. Thats how true democracies think. The Most important individual in your life is You.

Jusice Chaudhry is under a house arrest, along with every other senior judge of Pakistan, so do you even know what is the meaning of being under house arrest?
because if you do, then what you said is really really stupid (sorry have no other was of putting it)

In my time in Pakistan, We've paid off judges to make judgements.. So sorry if I disagree with anything about Judicial justice in Pakistan. These corrupt judges do not pass a judgement unless you show them some money. even their english is horrible, I've had to go back and correct judgements which they've signed off on!

who is we? what times, paid which judges ??
Those are all personal claims, and if you cannot specify actual incidents which are of public and not private nature, then you really cannot use that as an argument.

Where can I read this verdict that the court gave for Nawaz Sharif? So you are saying there was no plea bargin? Or that the plea bargin was invalid? So in this light, why doesnt Nawaz Sharif return to Pakistan? Ofcourse there is that ordinance that can be used and claimed that Nawaz Sharif causes civil unrest and thus detaining him in Pakistan is not an ideal choice. But with our ex Anti Government Biases judges, that would be a tough measure to pass wouldnt it?

Forget about the verdict, you dont even know what the case was about do you?
in that case I really cannot waste my time here anymore
\

So in essence you want Mushy to go forth and enact some sort of Pakistani Patriot Act, which I am sure given his past, he can get enacted any way he wants. And then you wouldnt have a problem with all these detainees, who have been detained on suspicion charges. Whats weird is that, this too is nothing new in Pakistan.

As i said earlier, even parts of patriot act were cut down by judiciary as they were considered unconstitutional, if musharaf can bring about such an act and get it passed by both the houses, and "independent" courts can validate it then sure by all means...

Its been going on since 1947. Anyone can be detained. Only in 2007 we hear people cry about it. What about the 1000s of Soldiers who are being killed by so called Pakistanis in the line of Duty!? The media never show's their plight? The media in Pakistan no longer reports. Its become more of a mass Jerry Springer show, create shock and awe.

well if media never showed their plight, how do u know about it?
ur contradicting yourself, but this is offtopic, so i would not comment more about it

That was a jab against precious democracy. Where only the majority counts. Minority is irrelevant. I can envision a number of scenarios where the Minority gets screwed in a Democratic system in Pakistan. A good example is how some religious groups in Pakistan have been screwed over by the majority, Democratically.

dont say u "can give examples" give examples....

[Fasaha]

I wanna relay something i heard on a pak channel last night, i wonder what you will make of it....

Basically the point being made by the host and his guests on the show was, that in effect the events of the last few days have no affect on the ordinary person on the street, he still lives in depression, oppression and hopelessnes, no ruler less a devil than another, and always will be unless pak faces some armageddon. Its big villians fighting it out for there own supremacy in there own way. Democracy and justice are nothing more than empty notions use to manipulate a politicans own personal gain... tools for the big boys. Ordinary people have always been merely pawns to be ushered to voting halls or rallys and demonstrations, cast aside and sacrificed at will......Therefore the wisest man is he who sits at home waiting for the storm of emergency law to subside.

[pakfriend]

When is theis emergancy gonna end ??

[Footloose]

^when Musharaf wants it to end,obviously!

[khallaass]

I would say a months time.

[Mastermind]

they should just:

give islamabad to musharraf
give sindh to benazir bhutto
give punjab to nawaz sharif
give nwfp to ISI/tribals/fata
give baloch to imran khan

satisfy each's hunger for power/money/fame
maybe then they can live in peace?
question:
can these provinces even live with/tolerate each other?
can the army defend an invasion?

personally i think USA/UK should just take over (by force) 100% pakistani territory, because pakis are too busy fighting within themselves and burning their own lands which is bad for environment of earth....

the only way these people can learn is once it goes through the worst of times.....such as a foreign invasion, india from their side, iranians from other side, afghanis from nwfp side, and china/russia from north, and usa/uk from the sea.......then we will see how good that bloody brown uniform REALLY is.....

[khallaass]

These days Nawaz Sharif talks a LOT about Democracy in Pakistan. However when the Supreme court convicted him on the charges brought forward, the Ousted Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's lawyers described Pakistan as a ''politically primitive'' nation and not fit for democracy, and I quote:
"[The] provisions relating to fundamental rights in our constitution are meant for highly sophisticated societies and not for a politically primitive country like Pakistan.'' - Ijaz Batalvi

Its just some interesting bit of info.

[manna]

I grieve with all of you. as much as i am grief-stricken, i feel and hope that it's not indelibly engraved to be such a situation. Rather than to be critical of the incumbent, it would be useful to reflect what caused it.

[vitalsignsguy]

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's lawyers described Pakistan as a ''politically primitive'' nation and not fit for democracy, and I quote:
"[The] provisions relating to fundamental rights in our constitution are meant for highly sophisticated societies and not for a politically primitive country like Pakistan.'' - Ijaz Batalvi

Its just some interesting bit of info.

Here is another world you may wana look up in the dictionary, its called Sarcasm

[TNT_for_Brain]

I think you need to read my post again, you said that you are insulting yourself, and I told you that by all means you can do that, as you have a right to say whatever your want.
But you have no right to insult Pakistanis as a nation, i don’t see how this is a "personal attack" on you, what I said was based on your own comments

in no democratic country of the world, can a government take a decision which is against the constitution of that country, I dont know where you live but in Canada we have something called the charter of rights and freedom (document which guarantees basic rights of citizens) there are so many bills, passed by the government, which the supreme court turns down as they conflict the charter, and this is same with every other democracy in world including India.

once again, what initiative by the government, the media was free only and only till it was seen as being "favorable" to Musharaf, I have given you specific steps taken by the government to curb freedom of media, so again I don’t understand what freedom you are referring to. As i said earlier, that indeed Pakistan did not have private news channels before 99, but foreign news channels were working in Pakistan since early 90s (and foreign radio channels since 60s) it is the first time that even those channels have been bared from working.
I m making another thread about the detailed look at Pakistan's media.

First of all, let me thank you for not using capital letters and numerous exclamation marks this time. You may have violated MP's rules yourself man, sad =(. Lets discuss this in a calm environment and hope that it leads to some extent of understanding.

People are taking this Martial Law as a negative move without knowing the insight, it's just natural because they know it's unconstitutional. I believe, again it's my belief that Pakistan is in a severe need of autocratic leadership because of some political elemants - who have already been assessed and failed - are now aiming their very best for power, it's time to change behaviors of those who want to take Pakistan back to where it stood during the previous governments when every week a high level of political worker was assassinated and hundreds of innocent civilians used to come in the range of cross fires between political parties. There were attacks on courts, lawyers used to get killed, bans were imposed on music bands - Pop band Junoon was banned for years due to undemocratic political environment. There was no freedom of speech during the previous governments, today people are not scared to come up on T.V and say anything against government. In past, people would get thrashed by the Police or ruling party's workers if they went against the government. Journalism? I don't remember any newspaper other than "Awaam" and "Jang" Today, numerous newspapers are workable providing thousands with jobs.

How can free media be biased and "favor" a particular person? Or maybe media supported Musharraf until it was bought by opposition parties? I don't think Musharraf would control loads of news channels himself to praise his government day and night neither have I seen channels, particularly the biggies, GEO and ARY, praising government, yes they were neutral in the beginning. Coming to the current situation, I wonder why did I never see T.V. anchors critizing people who were constantly abusing government freely on their channels? I even heard someone saying 'Hum inki khaalay udharhday gey' Is this something to air on T.V? Isn't media responsible for igniting this chaos now? Even western democratic governments have border lines to what is to be shown. you don't show 'gory' scenes on television to disturb public's state of mind man!

Foreign channels in Pakistan back in 90's? A common man could have only dreamt of buying dish and keeping himself updated of what was going in the country and in the world, politically and generally. Yeah, CNN used to be on air for 3 hours after 9 for public without dish antennas but did they ever look inside Pakistan political environment before 9/11? No, they didn't therefore no threat imposed upon government at that time. Today, cable is affordable and approachable by a common man. Do you still not see any improvements made by this government toward freedom of speech now?

Freedom of trade? You can open up your channel in Pakistan now and again providing thousands of people with respectable jobs including journalists, artists and many other professionals. Numerous telecommunication companies opened, again providing thousands with employment. Import and Export has been made easier again enabling people to have multiple sources of earning. Our ties with international countries, including India, have strengthened in terms politics and trade, Gawadar Port Project can be recognized as one of the greatest improvements in Pakistan. Technology infrastructure has immensly improved. Women rights have been started to getting familiarized in Pakistan, women have been given the chance to join assembly!

Were you able to do all of this prioir to this government? Why do I no longer see people and especially T.V. anchors admiring the current government for all of these acheivements on media? There are tons of shows to enjoy the fights between government and opposition. Why aren't there shows to focus on improvements? Why is it easy to complain and difficult to appreciate?

Every freedom comes with responsibitlity!
I feel that sometimes political discussions reduce the brotherhood among people, we as a nation should never let this happen. United we stand, divided we fall.

Enough politics for me, take care man
Allah Hafiz

[khallaass]

Here is another world you may wana look up in the dictionary, its called Sarcasm

You say Sarcasm. I say it couldn't have been more truer. Who won?

[Guru]

It's a shame that some people (here) are supporting the General for all his wrong moves.

I have been a Musharraf supporter almost throughout, but the events that occured during the 2007 have made me lose respect for this General. And with the imposition of Emergency - and the things that have followed - I can only say one thing: Musharraf wiped off his slate of all the good he did in the past few years! Sab cheezon par paani pher diya.

The foremost thing is: He has turned out to be a liar - Time and Again! He said that he would hold election soon after the '99 coup - he didn't; that he would take off his uniform by 2004 - he didn't; that he would NEVER allow BB (and Nawaz) to come back at ALL - again a lie; that emergency was totally out of question (just from his statements a couple of weeks ago) - and now we have emergency!

So, what else to believe about this guy?

He was celebrating in Islamabad when people were dying in Karachi.

I never doubted his 'capability' to steer the nation into a better future. Even now I know that he IS capable. But he has totally lost it, and made all the wrong moves in recent times. One wrong move after another. To get out of one hole/ditch, he is constantly digging another under his feet!

A dark period in the history of Pakistan that I am witnessing. I just hope it doesn't remain dark for too long.

[khallaass]

It's a shame that some people (here) are supporting the General for all his wrong moves.

I have been a Musharraf supporter almost throughout, but the events that occured during the 2007 have made me lose respect for this General. And with the imposition of Emergency - and the things that have followed - I can only say one thing: Musharraf wiped off his slate of all the good he did in the past few years! Sab cheezon par paani pher diya.

The foremost thing is: He has turned out to be a liar - Time and Again! He said that he would hold election soon after the '99 coup - he didn't; that he would take off his uniform by 2004 - he didn't; that he would NEVER allow BB (and Nawaz) to come back at ALL - again a lie; that emergency was totally out of question (just from his statements a couple of weeks ago) - and now we have emergency!

So, what else to believe about this guy?

He was celebrating in Islamabad when people were dying in Karachi.

I never doubted his 'capability' to steer the nation into a better future. Even now I know that he IS capable. But he has totally lost it, and made all the wrong moves in recent times. One wrong move after another. To get out of one hole/ditch, he is constantly digging another under his feet!

A dark period in the history of Pakistan that I am witnessing. I just hope it doesn't remain dark for too long.

If Bill Clinton can Lie and get away with it. Why cant our Mushy lie!? Koi Bill Clinton se kam hai!!? Thats the way Politics is played ALL over the world. The good thing is, you cannot impeach Mushy on Lying in some speeches. heheheh.

This post has been edited by khallaass: Nov 11 2007, 09:48 PM

[Fasaha]

Musharraf blackmails judges? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle2848490.ece

This post has been edited by Fasaha: Nov 12 2007, 08:20 AM

[khallaass]

Musharraf blackmails judges? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle2848490.ece

This is nothing new. Remember that Netcafe thingy!? Some of those girls were also daughters of bigshots. Anyway, I dunno why the judges will succumb to such blackmail if they did nothing wrong?

[TNT_for_Brain]

Musharraf blackmails judges? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle2848490.ece

Astaghfirullah, making such filthy allegations without any proof against own government and military is pathetic. Common sense tells you, military ruler, who is supported by various big political parties, does not require to order to perform such filthy deeds in order to restrain power.

I never even thought that opposition could get this lowered, what world we are living in. Really sad!

[khallaass]

Here's a better question. Was Uncle Judge Iftikhar really getting his freak on with Aunty Jamila!?

[Fasaha]

Astaghfirullah, making such filthy allegations without any proof against own government and military is pathetic. Common sense tells you, military ruler, who is supported by various big political parties, does not require to order to perform such filthy deeds in order to restrain power.

but the article claims there is video evidence apparently...how much truth there is too it, Allah ho alam.

[TNT_for_Brain]

but the article claims there is video evidence apparently...how much truth there is too it, Allah ho alam.

yea which also shows ISI agents taping the videos and enjoying it? Give me a break!

It's a false and the filthiest allegation made by opposition so far.

[Fasaha]

Here's a better question. Was Uncle Judge Iftikhar really getting his freak on with Aunty Jamila!?

well if there is such a scandal going on then thats a set of allegations that needs to be looked at independantly. And if these judges are indeed being blackmailed then this also needs to be scrutinised. Something tells me these sorts of underhand tactics and scandals are commonplace in most regimes, but ours seems to be les adept at covering them up.

[safir]

The question I would like to ask is " How many of the politicians, Civil servants and judges are honest and trustworthy"?

[vitalsignsguy]

Musharraf blackmails judges? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle2848490.ece

Disgusting, is the only word which comes to my mind after reading this. I could have never imagined that Musharaf and his aides can scoop to such lows just to gain a little bit of political mileage. Going by the ambiguity and vagueness of this article, it is quiet apparent that there is not a hint of truth in it. It looks like a brain child of some perverted officer at ISI, inspired most likely by, some cheap sex novel.
But what the dictator and his idiot loyalists do not realize is that while such scandals will do little damage to the popularity of Justice Iftikhar Choudhry, (because for on thing , he was not part of any of the benches mentioned in this article) they will tarnish our image as a nation Internationally.
In any civilization, jurists are always considered to be the people of highest morality, integrity and character. When society looses trust in justice system and judiciary, it leads to only one thing and that is anarchy. When we study history of civilizations, every great nation which we come across has one thing in common, and that is an exemplary justice system.
So what exactly is implied in this article? That the senior most judges of our superior courts are morally corrupt sex addicts?
These are not some random people of the streets, who we are talking about; their names were not picked up from a hat to sit on the bench at the Supreme Court. They are all hard working, professional, educated Pakistanis, who would be considered the intelligentsia of Pakistan, the nucleus of our society.
Like any other country in world, our judiciary sets the benchmarks of morals and ethics. So to say that we have such a corrupt judiciary is actually an insult to us, as a nation that we as a nation are people of no character or integrity. Which is why, it comes as no surprise that when Indian news channels picked up this story yesterday, they were running news flashes regarding this all day long.
And people make no mistake about it, our military is very much capable of this, in fact for past 60 years, our Army has done a great job in creating the image of “bloody civilians”. Thanks to the over 30 years of propaganda campaign of army dictators, our civil society is now under a severe inferiority complex. To us everyone in our society, be it politicians, judges, journalists, businessmen or even ordinary labor, is extremely corrupt, and our only saviors are the great men of Army, who must come to our rescue ever 10 years or so and then stay around for another 11 years.
So while everyone curses at Benazir for Surrey palace or Nawaz Sharif for Ittifaq foundries, no one really questions how the sons of an ex-ISI chief became one of the biggest industrial tycoons of Pakistan, or how is it that every general which retires from Pakistan army today is worth at least 50 million rupees.
Or why is it that Army, which is essentially running on the money of tax payers, is the owner of one of the largest business house in Pakistan (Askari foundation) and is the largest land developer in Pakistan (DHAs) and YET continues to take a major part of our annual budget every year.

[Guru]

If Bill Clinton can Lie and get away with it. Why cant our Mushy lie!? Koi Bill Clinton se kam hai!!? Thats the way Politics is played ALL over the world. The good thing is, you cannot impeach Mushy on Lying in some speeches. heheheh.

First tell me, are you a Pakistani? Coz I seriously doubt it! The way you have been showing Pakistanis as inferior mortals to others in the world. You called Pakistanis as sheep. You want Mushy to give us hell. You wanna read about "massive killings of extremists in FATA regions. Something that makes headlines around the world."

I think these are some of the most inhuman comments that I have read on these forums about any country/nation/people. No one here has said anything like this for Iraqis even! Yet, you had the audacity to say such things for us Pakistanis.

In fact, comments by TNT_for_Brain were quite appalling as well.

No one has the right to ridicule a whole nation or its people based on just a fraction of its elements.

The people of Pakistan are quite intelligent let me tell you. But when you don't have viable alternative political forces (other than PPP and PML) then what do you expect of the people? When you have to choose between three crookes, you will end up with a crook no matter what. So don't blame the people for not being intelligent.

As for your support for mass killings of terrorists in FATA regions. Let me ask you, would you give the same suggestion to India as well for its Kashmir region that they should start mass killing the terrorists in that region? Afterall these freedom fighters/terrorists are causing havoc in Kashmir. Although in Indian Kashmir most 'terrorists/freedom fighters' are outsiders (whereas in the Pakistani region most are our own people (influenced by a few foreigners)); do you understand the repercussions of such a move by India, not just globally but within their regions as well?

So it's just totally naive of you to suggest such a horrific thing while turning a complete blind eye towards the repercussions of such an incident (and even this mini martial law) and the plight of the people.

[Maham]

WELL WELL WELL

Once the president decides something for our own good, something good for our nation, good for the country NOONE LISTEN TO HIM, NOONE accept this!!! Our people are so bad that they call their badl uck theirselves. They say Bye to fortune. Eurpean and American people are OTHERS, they would say it bad, because they never decides a good thing for muslim country ... they are always like this, they just cant see a developping countries comming up or deciding something ... so they will say against our gouvernement BUT our own people, what do they do??They follow these foreigners for crushing their own destiny!!POOR PEOPLE!!

I say SALUTE to MUSHARRAF for what he did for the country, for the nation and for what he is doing. EMERGENCY was put a bit later but better later than never. IT has to be there. Because our people were blind, they couldn't see who is doing all those bomb attacks, all those suicide attacks etc etc. No political party is sincere, PPP, MQM,ML (N) ML(Q), Imran Khan ...NONE of them is sincere BELIEVE ME NONE OF THEM IS TO BELIEVE ON ... From last few months the country was going worse and worse, it was going to die believe me. Noone was responsible and noone do anyhting .. they are just their to have their SEAT, to confirm their money in accounts, to be famous, to see their own prfot, ...
Emergency is the BEST thing he could have done to stop all this for a moment and search the killers' parties and bring Peace into country. I wish a Marchal Law to come. At least their will be peace in the country for a few time.

I dont want to see any benazir, any nawaz sharif, any imran khan to come to the scene, to have a seat ... none of them. who can guarantee PEACE under these people???Country developpement is another thing if we are not safe, we cant do anything .. so first of all we need PEACE. and Emergency is the best thing to maintain PEACE even if for a little time.

(but our poor people are against their own peace, they are really very POOR, because they are not aware of the TRUTH. they just shout after others and so and so .. noone tries to understand himself the situation, they just follow someone next to him without thinking, ...

May Allah give our people a good mind for thinking good for our country and may Allah bless our Country and help Musharraf on his right way to his right decisions.

[Guru]

^ First of all Maham, I pray the same thing for you:

May Allah give our people a good mind for thinking good for our country ...

Coz I think more than the people living within Pakistan, it's the Pakistanis living abroad that need some sense knocked into their heads. It seems many Pakis living abroad have (naturally) lost complete hope in the political process and the politicians. Although I don't buy the jack of politicians here either, but I won't go to the extent of letting or accepting another worse methodology or process (the current regime/scenario) to supersede a prior wrong process (previous regimes/scenario).

Once the president decides something for our own good, something good for our nation, good for the country NOONE LISTEN TO HIM, NOONE accept this!!! Our people are so bad that they call their badl uck theirselves. They say Bye to fortune.

Let me correct you first: He's NOT the President ... yet. His case was pending in the Supreme Court. The matter, as they say, is subjudice. So he's just another Pakistani - a COAS to be exact - who is trying to carry out a one man show, who probably has started considering himself no less than a diety (evident from his speeches, especiallly the one he did on 12th May in Islamabad when Karachi was burning).

Second, Pakistan is not a Presidential system. The President's main role here is to keep a check on the government, rather than become the government, the judge, the jury, the executioner, the everything!

Because our people were blind, they couldn't see who is doing all those bomb attacks, all those suicide attacks etc etc.

So who was doing all those bomb attacks? Care to share?

FYI, Pir Pagara (an ally of Musharraf and his party) had been claiming since the early this year that Martial Law/Emergency WILL be imposed (whereas Musharraf was saying that he would NEVER do such a thing. Liar!) Pir Pagara also went on to say that situations WILL be created in the country that will lead to the imposition of Emergency/Martial Law. He said thousands would die during the course of the coming months. And that this was all in the pipeline BY the current regime!

Now if you want to believe that there was no backing of the government or the agencies behind the whole Lal Masjid incident, then it's your own fault, don't blame the people of Pakistan or the political parties! If you believe that the judiciary crisis was because of the people of Pakistan or the political parties, and the government was totally innocent, then again it's your own false perceptions that you need to change. And I will tell you that you are totally mistaken if you say that 160 million people of Pakistan are responsible for what's happening in FATA and Swat and other regions of the frontier.

If still you don't buy what I am saying then mark my words: if Musharraf stays, things are only going to get worse! I hope the government in the USA changes soon, coz it's only due to Bush that Mush exists. Bush is using Mush for his own gains. Do you know Pakistan has so much oil and gas resources as well? With Iran in Bush gov's target, and Afghanistan already in his arms, you cannot deny that he hasn't kept his eye on Pakistan. And only through Mush, Bush can achieve his plans!

So clear your thoughts. Come to Pakistan to see the bigger picture. It's probably reading about Pakistan in International (and your local) journals and newspapers, such as Newseek and Time, of Pakistan being a dangerous state has made you shape your thoughts according to them.

Emergency is the BEST thing he could have done to stop all this for a moment and search the killers' parties and bring Peace into country.

Peace? What peace? Where?

I dont want to see any benazir, any nawaz sharif, any imran khan to come to the scene, to have a seat ... none of them. who can guarantee PEACE under these people???

You are contradicting yourself! You are asking who can guarantee peace under BB/Nawaz/Imran? FYI, there was peace during their tenures. As for Musharraf, where's your guarantee?? The worst is happening in Pakistan during Musharraf's tenure! Do you even know what happened in Balochistan last year? What is happening this year? It's the Frontier Province!! What's next year? Sindh or Punjab??

Pakistan is burning ... the highest peacetime military casualities we had this year!! And you call this PEACE!?

(but our poor people are against their own peace, they are really very POOR, because they are not aware of the TRUTH. they just shout after others and so and so .. noone tries to understand himself the situation, they just follow someone next to him without thinking, ...

Again, seek the truth yourself first. The above quoted line applies on you more than I see it applying on our people (who almost have nothing to do with anything that has been happening in the country since the past 8 years - yes, the people have stayed home! so don't blame the people for the situation Pak is in. The last 8 years it's only been one king, one god, one diety - Musharraf.)

[CharteredAccount...]

I was a supporter of General Musharraf until he declared this state of emergency. I overlooked his past actions even if they were wrong (such as removal of CJ) because I was satisfied that he is bringing modernism to Pakistan. I am totally against him now.

I am very sad to hear Commonwealth of Nations has decided to suspend Pakistan's membership, AGAIN as a result of this power struggle. It will just mean more humiliation for Pakistan and blocking of foreign aid.

[khallaass]

First tell me, are you a Pakistani? Coz I seriously doubt it! The way you have been showing Pakistanis as inferior mortals to others in the world. You called Pakistanis as sheep. You want Mushy to give us hell. You wanna read about "massive killings of extremists in FATA regions. Something that makes headlines around the world."

I think these are some of the most inhuman comments that I have read on these forums about any country/nation/people. No one here has said anything like this for Iraqis even! Yet, you had the audacity to say such things for us Pakistanis.

Unfortunately my friend, I am a Pakistani. I have this world forsaken Pakisani passport which has played an instrumental role in curbing my success in life. I wish I could get rid of it or replace it with something far better. I tried, but its curse was so strong upon me, it came back!

No one has the right to ridicule a whole nation or its people based on just a fraction of its elements.

Oh really!? Goto places around the world and you will see how Pakistanis are ridiculed BECAUSE of 'fraction' of its elements. Dubai is a good example. Every known Fraud headline has a Pakistani involved. America, I had to be made to go register in 2003 BECAUSE I was a Pakistani. Everyone has the right to ridicule a whole nation BECAUSE of a fraction of its elements. These statements you make look good only on paper and in speeches, but in real life its always the opposite. I learned the hardway, someday you will too.

The people of Pakistan are quite intelligent let me tell you. But when you don't have viable alternative political forces (other than PPP and PML) then what do you expect of the people? When you have to choose between three crookes, you will end up with a crook no matter what. So don't blame the people for not being intelligent.

See, my Goray dost always do not understand the situation about Pakistan. They say 180 Million people live in Pakistan, and all you have to choose from are these 3 crooks!? There is something seriously wrong with the pakistani people if this is how it works in Pakistan. And I feel they are right. Pakistanis do NOT want to help themselves. You call this intelligent? The crooks are always to be blamed, but bear in mind its actually the PEOPLE who are truely responsible to a large extent.

As for your support for mass killings of terrorists in FATA regions. Let me ask you, would you give the same suggestion to India as well for its Kashmir region that they should start mass killing the terrorists in that region? Afterall these freedom fighters/terrorists are causing havoc in Kashmir. Although in Indian Kashmir most 'terrorists/freedom fighters' are outsiders (whereas in the Pakistani region most are our own people (influenced by a few foreigners)); do you understand the repercussions of such a move by India, not just globally but within their regions as well?

Kashmir is a disputed state. Is FATA a disputed piece of land also? Look, who cares if our own people are influenced by the enemey!? They take the law in their own hands, they are terrorists. And the government needs to step up its campaign! We have an Emergency issued, the government needs to make it count! These people roam around the region with utter contempt for the Law of the land. The government needs to instill fear in their hearts. Push them to the wall. I'll vote for whichever candidate is man enough to do such a thing!! And its not naive of me to suggest such horrific things. Where do these people think they live!? They dwell on Pakistani soil, they WILL comply with Pakistani Law.

[Guru]

^ On one hand, you are saying that the 160+ million people of Pakistan are truely responsible.

Then on the other hand, you call those people terrorists who are 'revolting' against the present regime.

Apart from that, you have called themselves sheep waise hi.

If they come out and revolt, you say the people are wrong! If they don't do anything and let things go on as they are, you are yet again putting the blame on the people. So in the end, no matter what the people do (revolt or stay home) the blame is still on them!

Poor you. Totally unclear of what you want to support - voice of people or shutting them up.