The 12 Caliphs, what do your aqeedah says Options

[Morg]

this question has bothered me for a long time

some hadiths says there will be 12 khalifas from Bani Quraish

our jaafri brothers have a line of imams who descend each others in total 12 men

Ali
Hassan
Hussain
Zain ul abedeen
Mohammad Baqar
Jafaar As Saadiq
Musa I Kazim
Ali riza
Mohammad Taqi
Ali Hadi
Hassan al-Askari
Mohammad Mahdi



while the other group sunnis have these caliphs for sure

1. Abu bakr
2. Umar
3. Uthman
4. Ali

while some regard hassans rule to be into the caliphate
couse there were predicted that the caliphate after prophet muhammad would last not more than 30 years

5. Hassan

and afterwards there havent been any candidates except the ummayad caliph Umar, who were from the quraish

6. Umar II bin Abdul Aziz


now who to fill into these empty slots or are we still waiting for them?

7.
8.
9.
10.
11.

the last one is already known, we know imam mahdi will come

12. Mohammad bin Abdullah / Imam Mahdi

[Rizvi]

I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve commanders (Amir)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, "All of them will be from Quraish."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.329


The Prophet (as) said: "The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraish."

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

[PakistaniMunda]

^ r u talking about that there always will be 12 caliphs on Earth till the final day


plz clarify

[Rizvi]

qayamat will not come till these caliphs have ruled/come.

[Destino]

The caliphs or Amirs are meant to be the rightly guided ones. So if this hadith is interpretted with the hadith that for every century there will be a mujaddid, than those mujaddideen are the rightly guided caliphs of the Prophet (Saw).

[Rizvi]

there will be ONLY 12 amirs/imams, and these imams cannot be interpreted as any other imam as the prophet made it clear that all of them will be from quraish.

[Rizvi]

according to the majority the caliphs/amirs/imams are as follows :
1-4. The Four Rightly-Guided Caliphs
5. Mu`awiya
6. His son Yazid
7. `Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan
8-11. al-Walid, Sulayman, Yazid, and Hisham
12. Al-Walid ibn Yazid ibn `Abd al-Malik.


But not all of them are from quraish

[Rizvi]

has anyone seen the roof of the open room a corner away from the Grave of the prophet(as). if one would look at the roof, he'll see the names of the Holy Prophet, hazrat Abu Bakr, Umar, Othman, hazrat Ali and then the names of the of the shia Imams starting with Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain, Imam Zain Abideen, Imam Muhammad Baqar, Imam Ja'afar Ibn Muhammad till Imam Musa Kazim

This post has been edited by Rizvi: Sep 15 2004, 09:22 AM

[Morg]

^^ hm i saw the names of the 4 caliphs and imam hassan and hussein


but there were said
there will be 12 caliphs
they will rule for 30 years after me, but after that it will be intermissions, means breaks between each "rightly" caliph

Abu bakr
Omar
Uthman
Ali
Hassan

theyr caliphate had together 30 years i think

later the intervall came. and omarII ibn abdul aziz came


to mention umayyas and the abbasids "were" from quraish... but umayyas were not from hashem i think

[vitalsignsguy]

just a correction, shia faith does not believe in 12 kalifs rather in 12 Imams, and according to shia believe there are fundamental differnces between khilafat and Imamat........just a clearification, u guys carry on doing what u were doing

[Samira Saeed]

Hey hey.. just to ask... wasnt yazid a caliph 'once upon a time?'

[parang]

Read Rizvi's second last answer.

[Samira Saeed]

oh cool. So like him or hate him, Yazid was 'The Man' for some time. Wait a go Yazid! ( should I be pbuh too ) even though allegedly he took out another caliph? Or is this a deep sore wound in Islamic History?

[Rizvi]

bro vitalsignsguy

according to the fiqh of jafari, khalifa is a representative of God on earth chosen only by Allah. So a khalifa = Imam

[Rizvi]

oh cool. So like him or hate him, Yazid was 'The Man' for some time.  Wait a go Yazid! ( should I be pbuh too ) even though allegedly he took out another caliph? Or is this a deep sore wound in Islamic History?

Yazid was "The Man" ? hmmm anyway all i know is that he was a tyrant, just like his grandfather and the son of Hinda the cannibal. Yazids grandfather also has pretty interesting things under his name, so its not a suprise for me to know how yazid thought about islam. he killed the innocent imam hussain for power just like previous tyrants in the history had done to gain power.

So like him or hate him, he was a hypocrate who deserves Lanat. Super Lanat on Yazid

This post has been edited by Rizvi: Sep 22 2004, 09:27 AM

[parang]

SS why would Raza-e-Eahi be a sour wound? Wait I forgot you don't believe in it so you would not understand. Therefore don't bother discussing.

Rizvi Sb according to your definition would Hazrat Abu Bakr also be classified as an Imam?

[Morg]

ok just to mention
it would be fun with a list of who you accept as caliphs/ imams

yo ucould be from any fiqa group or sect
but do not give lanaah on the other side or make your side more superior.. just explain why and how.. .and its in the box, couse i dont want secterian fight in here

[Samira Saeed]

Yazid was "The Man" ? hmmm  anyway all i know is that he was a tyrant, just like his grandfather and the son of Hinda the cannibal. Yazids grandfather also has pretty interesting things under his name, so its not a suprise for me to know how yazid thought about islam. he killed the innocent imam hussain for power just like previous tyrants in the history had done to gain power.

So like him or hate him, he was a hypocrate who deserves Lanat. Super Lanat on Yazid

As I said honey. Yazid was a Caliph of the Muslims once upon a time. And thus no matter what, u think of him, that title alone I am happy to say should warrant a lot of respect towards him, even if he killed an Imam, who mind u died in an attempted overthrow of Yazid. Why would u blame Yazid for that? The 'innocent' Imam thought he could take out Yazid, He didnt manage to do it, lost the struggle, got killed, a price of waging a war. You didnt think Yazid would just roll over and hand the Caliphate to the 'innocent' imam did u?

[Morg]

sammy stop it. it aint created for a secterian fight

[Zuq]

there had been jung-e-jumul between fourth caliph hazrat ali(RA) and ummul momineen hazrat ayesha(RA)

[Prince Ali]

Have we discussed what we wanted, or should we wait for a fight to break out?

[MJ2k4]

Ummayad dynasty started after the death of Ali (as i believe).
As far as I know it was Hazrat Usman who introduced Muawiyah as a governor of some region.
Now, the Ummayad dynasty had their own caliphs.
Umayyad contained most of the rulers who were from Qureish.
Known CALIPHS of ummayad dynasty are Muawiyah ibn Abu Sufyan,
Abdur Rehman, and Yazid ofcourse.

Abbasids started taking over soon after the death of Imam Hossein.
Abbassid Dynasty had their own caliphs. Abbasids were mainly from Banu Hashim, but they also had leaders from Qureish.
Most famouse ones are like Al-Mahdi and Harun al-Rashid.

But if you want the list of caliphs after the death of Ali, then here it is:
Muawiyah ibn Abu Sufyan, 661-680
Yazid ibn Muawiyah, 680-683
Muawiya ibn Yazid, 683-684
Marwan ibn Hakam, 684-685
Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan, 685-705
al-Walid ibn Abd al-Malik, 705-715
Suleiman ibn Abd al-Malik, 715-717
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz, 717-720
Yazid II ibn Abd al-Malik, 720-724
Hisham ibn Abd al-Malik, 724-743
al-Walid II ibn Yazid II, 743-744
Yazid III ibn al-Walid, 744
Ibrahim ibn al-Walid, 744
Marwan II ibn Muhammad, 744-750

These were the caliphs under Umayyad Dynasty.
thats prolly about it

[MJ2k4]

There is also a difference between Imam and a Khalifa.
Imam is someone who is spirtually guided by Allah.
Khalifa is someone who is (supposed to be)selected by people as their ruler. It doesnt mean that khalifas are guided by Allah as well. Because as we have seen in the history, two khalifas of waging war against each other.
Weather the Hadith is from Jafari or from Sahih Muslim or from Bukhari, The ACTUAL historic event is enough to tell you that Khalifa ARE NOT the guided ones.

[Rizvi]

SS, rule by force in not respected and another thing, imam hussain did not die in an attempt to gain power for himself but instead to stop the unislamic rule of Yazid. history is enough to prove that. he had absolutely no interest in islam, but what he wanted was power. he used to drink, he did not believe in the the quran(he believed the prophet brought it up). would anyone call yazid the lanati a khalifa? was yazid really a successor of the prophet(as)??? I dont think so

[Rizvi]

@ parang

a khalifa is chosen by God not selected by people


@ MJ2k4

ok let me put the it this way: the duty of khalifat is reserved for the imam, because a khalifa is chosen only by Allah. Which two caliphs waged war against each other?

@ Zuq

what about the battle of jamal? What does it prove?

[cutepaki001]

hey Morg I know i am totally OFF THE TOPIC but where iz ur signature part-------~i love you~?

[Samira Saeed]

SS,  rule by force in not respected and another thing,  imam hussain did not die in an attempt to gain power for himself but instead to stop the unislamic rule of Yazid. history is enough to prove that. he had absolutely no interest in islam, but what he wanted was power. he used to drink, he did not believe in the the quran(he believed the prophet brought it up). would anyone call yazid the lanati a khalifa? was yazid really a successor of the prophet(as)??? I dont think so

"Although often depicted by Muslim historians as a dissolute ruler, Yazid attempted to continue his father's administrative and military policies. He reformed the tax system and improved the irrigation system in the environs of Damascus."

if Yazid hadn't allegedly killed Imam Hussain, I reckon Islamic historians would've had a MUCH different view of him. lets just say I dont put faith in Islamic historians, since they let religion cloud their opinions thereby creating a 'bias' in their narratives. Sure Yazid might've been dissolute, however call him whatever u want, He did HOLD the title. And a man has worth if he Holds the TITLE of Caliph in any way possible.

[Rizvi]

"Although often depicted by Muslim historians as a dissolute ruler, Yazid attempted to continue his father's administrative and military policies. He reformed the tax system and improved the irrigation system in the environs of Damascus."
.

but the fact remains that he killed imam hussain Everything he did afterwards cannot clean away the blemish. you are right he continued his father's military policies, no doubt he was a lanati by blood. Samira do u actually know the causes of the tragedy of karbala? In a battle both sides cannot be "right", right?

This post has been edited by Rizvi: Sep 23 2004, 04:49 AM

[parang]

Rizvi how would a common person know whether one is Khalifa or not? The same argument will be taken for Prophet hood however every Prophet was provided with the Miracles for that very purpose.

[Rizvi]

Rizvi how would a common person know whether one is Khalifa or not? The same argument will be taken for Prophet hood however every Prophet was provided with the Miracles for that very purpose.

parang noone can just stand up and become a khalifa. now allow me to tell u the selection of khalifa according to the shia faith. the holy prophet(as) knew about the imams of the future and had transfered that information to the next imam and so forth