Muhammad (saws) As The Final Messenger, ... of both the Script and Prophethood Options

[LuXoR]

Assalaamu Alaikum. I have temporarily opened Ahmadi (Qadyani) vs. Mainstream Muslim (Sunni/Shia) Discussion.

Following are the Rules:


1. It is expected that everyone exhibit civility. No personal attack and mock will be tolerated.

2. NO copy/pasting allowed. IF you wish to copy/paste something, it must be no longer than 200 words maximum, and reference to the source and credidentials of the Author MUST be given.

ALL (other) work must be your own. As a general warning: i am very well accustomed to- and familiar- with the style of writing, choice of word, grammar, and approach to a subject matter of all active (or former active) members of the Religion Section. Please spare yourself and myself the inconvenience of having to shun you off this discussion.

Any specific/special exception to this rule must be double-checked with- and obtained from me.

3. Since i don't wish Religion Section to be suddenly overwhelmned by a specific group of people who register to MuziqPakistan for the sole reason to participate in this discussion, the Administration has decided that NO newly registered Members, or those who have been rather inactive, are allowed to enter this discussion. All newbies are those people with a posting rate of 30 or lower AND who have registered AFTER June 23rd, 2004.

4. The criterion of this debate will be based on Qur'an and Hadith.

5. It is EXTREMELY important that everybody stick to the topic. I would not want people bombarding others with questions (unless they're a logical chain-reaction ) but each question should be covered one at a time.

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If i should find anyone in Violation of ANY of the above Rules, his or her post will be deleted, and a warning (the first and only) left. A second violation of the above Rules will automatically result in your suspension and prohibition to participate in this discussion.
Brothers and Sisters in Islam, please do assure your Blood Pressure, and therefore Temper, is under control.

Wasalaamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabaraka'tuh.

[LuXoR]

INTRO:



By reciting the Islamic Shahada “Laailaaha Ilallaahu Muhammadur-Rasoolullah”, every Muslim declares his unmatched faith in Allah swt, and in his last Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (saws), which carries the very essence of Khattam-e-Nabuwwat… or the Finality of Prophethood.

Allah says in the Qur'an: "this day I have perfected your religion (5:4)", thereby stating that the Islam given to us through Prophet Muhammad (saws) is complete and requires no more reformation nor addition from any other oncoming Prophet. Prophet Isa (as) will come down from the sky and follow the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (saws), which makes him no additional Prophet as he has already lived by his terms after Prophet Musa (as). Further, he will establish justice and peace and will also kill the Dajjaal (anti-christ). Promised to come around the same time is also Imam Mahdi. However, he will neither be a reviver nor a reformer. He will come to fill the world with justice as it would be filled with oppression.

As Muslims, one of the very core of our faith is to purely proclaim and accept Prophet Muhammad (saws) not only as him being the last prophet and having perfected the teaching of Allah, but also that there is none like onto him, no re-incarnation, nor any new, unknown, man be borne who can proclaim prophethood or the slightest resemblance to him. We understand that Prophet Isa (as) is no new Prophet.

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah. And he is the seal of the Prophets." (Qur'an, 33:40)

The Prophet of Allah (saws) affirmed: "The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be no Messenger nor Prophet after me." (Tirmidhi, Kitab-ur-Rouya Babu Zahab-un- Nubuwwa, Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat-Anas bin Malik)

The Prophet (saws) further stated: "There will appear thirty Dajjal from my Ummah, each claiming to be a Prophet. But after me, there will be no more Prophet." (u.v. Ahmad, Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)

This post has been edited by LuXoR: Jun 25 2004, 10:28 PM

[Diva]

[This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul-Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat' in Mecca.]
After praising and thanking Allah the Prophet (saws) said:

"O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray."

S o u r c e

[beaitabari]

walikumsalam luxor nice thread...

^^ thanks.

Beaitabari, i have clearly mentioned that everyone must stick to the topic and the current Issue. We are not addressing Hazrat Isa (as) ascendant from heaven yet, but we are talking about Nabbi (saws) as both the last Prophet in the chain of Prophethood, and as the last messenger with a Script (the Qur'an).

Issues to raise would therefore be considering ANY other man a prophet AFTER prophet Muhammad (saws), or considering any similaron between the alledged man and the Prophet (saws) himself!

This post has been edited by LuXoR: Jun 26 2004, 05:50 PM

[Destino]

Assalamoalykum,


Its nice to see a discussion under some rules with a described code of conduct taking place on the forum. I do hope that all the participants take heed this time and not stray from the topic. My advice is that only one person, LuXoR should be determining the topics to discuss and she should have the control over this thread.

I will start by addressing a few points that LuXoR has raised in her post.

1) Shahada does not mention the word last not there is any indication that it implies that Muhammad (saw) is the last of prophets. If this inference is based on the verse Khatamun Nabiyyen or the verse on completion/perfection of religion, than I disagree because both these verses in no way say that there can be no prophet after Rusoolullah (saw).

Lets discuss what Quran says on the subject of Prophethood.

1: 022.075 (Al-Hajj) says "Allah chooses/will choose messengers from Angels and from Men." Here the word “Yastafi” (Chooses/will choose) is used which is the mudhare verb or present and future tense both combined according to Arabic grammar. So this verse implies that sending of the messengers is the practice of Allah and 033.062 (Al-Ahzab ) 035.043 (Al-Fatir) “No change will you find in the practice of Allah”.

There are two kinds of Prophets. 1) those who bring a law and book e.g., Moses (as), Muhammad (saw) and 2) those who do not bring a new law but follow the law of the previous prophet/s. e.g., Aaron (as), Jesus (as). This is the Sunnah of Allah that after every law bearing prophets He sends the prophets who followed him to reinforce the laws and shariah and to renew the faith. After Moses (as), Bani Israel had hundreds of prophets who used to guide them, but they did not bring a new law after the law of Moses (as).

I will quote Imam Jaafar Sadiq (ra), who said in the commentary of the verse 057.026, that Allah made messengers, Prophets and Imams among Aale Ibrahim, but what amazes me is that people accept the presence of these blessings of prophet hood and Imamat in Aal e Ibraheem but deny their presence in Aal e Muhammad. (As Safi, Sharhe Usool e Kafee, Part 3, pp 119).

2: 003.179 : Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messengers (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure
Surah Aal e Imran is a Madni surah. Its when the pure and unpure were clearly differentiated. The grandees of Mecca were known to all as clear disbelievers and the punishment on them had started in the form of muslim victories and their humiliation. This verse says that after this there will be a point when God will differentiate between truth and falsehood again. And He will send his messenger to this differentiation and not by informing muslims individually. This is a glad tidings to Muslims as is clear from the context of the verse and the preceeding verses.

3: 004:069: Whoso obeyeth Allah and the messenger, they are with those unto whom Allah hath shown favour, of the prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they!

This verse describes gradual stages of spiritual excellence which can only be achieved by submitting completely to the Will of Allah and to follow Rusoolullah (saw). The first stage is of being righteous, the second of being a Shaheed (translated martyr, but it means to bear witness by sacrificing ones physical needs, possessions life etc), saints which are given frequent true dreams and visions and are immersed completely in the love of God and the Prophets who receive the Divine mercy of revelation and communication from God.
Here is a very interesting observation. This status of prophethood is only reserved for the Ummah of Rusoolullah (saw) and no other prophet. In the above mentioned verse the Messenger is Muhammad (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him). There is another verse which mentions other prophets.

057:019: And those who believe in Allah and His messengers- they are the Sincere (Siddique), and the witnesses (Shaheed), in the eyes of their Lord:Please note that the status of achieving prophethood is only reserved for the Ummah of Khatim un Nabiyyeen. i.e, this is the quality and the status of Holy Prophet (saw) only which gives only his followers the chance to attain maximum spiritual benefits.
Some may try to explain the 4:69, as the muslims who Obey will be with the company of prophets and not prophets themselves. Then you have to apply this to all the categories. So Abu bakr (ra) was not infact Siddique (nauzobillah), but he will only be in the company of other siddiques on the day of judgment. Or Umar (ra). Uthman(ra) and Ali (Ra) were not infact martyrs but they will be only in the company of the martyrs. Nauoozubillah.
The same way of relating different people to eachother is mentioned in this verse

004.146 : Except for those who repent, mend (their lives) hold fast to Allah, and purify their religion as in Allah's sight: if so they will be (numbered) with the believers. And soon will Allah grant to the believers a reward of immense value.In both instances the word Ma’a (they are with/counted with/considered with) is used. Which implies being one of them and not like what they say in urdu. “hum bhi hain paanch sawaron mein” .

There is another verse. “Wa Tawwaffana Ma’al Abraar”. And (O God) make us die with the righteous. Which means that may God give us death as righteous people and not with them literally. (if this meaning is applied than all the righteous in the world should die in a minute).

4: Now I will discuss the verse “al youma akmaltu lakum deenukum”.
Deen means the path, a way. Islam is the akmal perfect Deen. By following this deen one can achieve maximum possible moral and spiritual excellence. As I have mentioned above the spiritual grades start from being righteous and culminate at being a prophet. So if Islam is perfect, then some of its followers should achieve the maximum possible status.

5. The verse of Khatmaun nabiyyeen in Surah Ahzaab.

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah. And he is the seal of the Prophets." (Qur'an, 33:40).

This verse does not say “last” but says “seal”. And the word used is Khatamun Nabiyyeen and not Nabuwwat. So this is the status of our prophet (saw), among the prophets. It means to say that Muhammad (saw) is not the father of any of you men, but he is the spiritual father of all the prophets and those who follow them. The word seal means that Muhammad (saw) is the final authority. He (pbuh) has the highest possible spiritual status a man can attain and all the good that comes from Allah to mankind will come through the way of Muhammad (saw)’s prophethood.

Ibne Arabi (ra) writes; “We have understood clearly from Durood shareef that there are people in this ummah who, in the sight of God, have attained the status equivalent to prophets. But they can not bring any new shariah.” (Futoohat e Makkiah Vol 1, pp:545).

I have many more verses from Quran to discuss but I will keep it short to give readers the time to think and do their own research on the matter.

P.S. I missed the 200 word length rule and posted this. my apologies

This post has been edited by Destino: Jun 27 2004, 10:27 AM

[Destino]

Now I will turn to hadith.

1) Ibne Majjah, Book of funerals, in the chapter mentioning the janazah of the son of Rusoolullah (saw), pp. 227.

“Ibn e Abbas narrates that when Ibrahim, son of Rusoolullah (saw), passed away, Rusoolullah saw, offered his funeral prayers and said “ there is a maid for him in paradise and if he had stayed alive, he would have been a true Prophet.”

This happened in 9 hijrah and the Aayat of Khatamun Nabiyyen was revealed in 5 Hijrah. Some say that Ibrahim (as) died because there was no possibility of another prophet. This explanation seems lame and very cruel. If there was no Prophet after Rusoolullah (saw), then he could have said that even if he had stayed alive, he could not have been a prophet. But instead we find a perfectly clear explanation that Nabuwwat is still continuous in the ummah of Rusoolullah (Saw).

2) The other ahadith that LuXor has quoted like there will be no Prophet after me, mean that there will be no prophet with shariah after Rusoolullah (saw). There will be no new book or religion.

I can quote the understanding of many grand scholars of the past who are revered by millions even today on this subject. Just to emphasise that There is a difference between the law bearing Nabi and a non-law bearing nabi.

Shah wali ullah Muhaddith dehlave (ra), who is considered to be Mujaddid of his time writes in his book Tafheemat e Ilaahiya.

“ the meaning of Holy Prophet (Saw) being Khatumun Nabyyeeh is that there will be no person to whom Allah will give a new shariah and appoint him as a Nabi, in other words there will be no new shariah bearing nabi.” (pp:58)

There is a very interesting verse in Mathnave Maulana Room.

“Achieve something in the way of righteousness so that you can attain prophethood within the Ummat.” (Mathnavi, Daftar Awwal, pp:53)

3: Hazrat Ayesha (ra), Ummul Momineen and teacher of the sahabah (ra) narrated this hadith.

“Say that Rusoollah (saw) is Khatamun NAbiyyeen but don’t say that there will be no prophet after him.” (Durr e Manthur, Vol 5, pp;204)

Some may say this is a zaeef hadith but this matter is resolved by scholars who have commented on it.

Shekhul Iman Hazrat Ibn e Qutaibah (d. 268 H), wrote.

This saying of her (Ayesha ra), is not contradictory to the hadith “there will be no prophet after me” because what Rusoolullah (saw) said was that there will be no prophet after me who will cancel my Shariah” (Taveel Mukhtaful Ahadith pp. 236)

Imam Abdul Wahhab Shu’raani (ra) writes.

“Holy prophet’s(saw) saying that “la nabiyya ba’di” and “la Rusoola Ba’di” mean that there will be no law-bearing prophet after him.” (Al-yawaqeet o Al Jawahir, Vol2, pp;35)

Mullah Ali Qari (ra) who is the famous Imam of Ahle Sunna wrote.

“ The explanation of words of Hadith, La Nabiyya Baa’di, as explained by scholars is that there can be no prophet with a new shariah which cancels the shariah of Rusoolullah (Saw)” (Ishaa’at feil Ashraat is Saa’a pp 226).

So this explains the ahadith quoted by LuXoR. Not by me, but by well known, well respected hugely followed scholars of Muslims.

[pakistani_pwince...]

walekum asalam LUxor!

Just as a starting point i am an ahmadi myself.

now, how can i prove that we r muslims. Okay:
- we read the same Kalima as neone. just the one that Luxor has written for us.
-we believe in the same holy book as u do, the Qur'an (astaghfar the wierd things that ppl think up)
-now, in a hadith it states that there will be another imam mahdhi and he will claim to be a mahdi wen there will be a solar and lunar eclipse in the same month

Now, during 1889 Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Imam Mahdi and in 1895 and 1896 there were solar and lunar eclipses during the month of Ramadan. They were both at different parts of the world.

so there! now, for everyone I AM A MUSLIM, I WEAR A HIJAB and I AM PROUD TO BE A MUSLIM. No one, and i mean no one has the right to call me a Kafar or a Non-Muslim. First be a perfect muslim ureself and then judge others. Wen i mean perfect, i mean 100% perfect. I mean following the five pillars of islam and knows everything about islam and every sect of Islam. Then talk or speak or actually in this case type!

This post has been edited by pakistani_pwincess: Jun 27 2004, 03:21 PM

[beaitabari]

OK NO FLOODING....... IS THAT REALLY HARD TO GET

This post has been edited by vitalsignsguy: Jun 27 2004, 03:18 PM

[mehmoodtily]

Assalamualaikum to Muslims and hello to Qadiyanis/Ahmadis (and all other non muslims),

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS....... WHY CAN YOU PPL NOT GET THAT
In the verse

Whoso obeyeth Allah and the messenger, they are with those unto whom Allah hath shown favour, of the prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they!

The Quran is saying that the person who obeys Allah and his messenger peace be upon him will be rewarded with the company of these people (prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous). And it clearly says about company of them and not them. (Similar to saying Engineers earn the same as Doctor. It does not mean that engineers become doctor. It is tell the greatness of reward). Or as you were trying to imply will they become prophets, saints, martyrs, righteous. I think everyone knows the meaning of company. You can accompany a king without being a king.

So

This post has been edited by vitalsignsguy: Jun 27 2004, 04:41 PM

[beaitabari]

(vitalsings that was not right^^ )

khatam-un-nabeen means seal of prophets..and in case of Hazoor (SAW) bein the last prophet and being the khataum-un-nabeen means there will be no prophet with any new book other than the Holy Quran and any new religion other than Islam except the one taught by our Hazoor(SAW) so in this manner he is the seal of prophets but it deosnt mean at all no other prophet can come.. by doing so u are stopping urself from the blesing of Allah in the shape of prophicy.. this in no regard and manner minimise the martaba of pyare Nabi HAzoor(SAW) or maximise of a any other person ...

also the prophet u are claiming to come should have come in the start of 14th century in islamic calender and now we are in 15th where is Hadhrat Isa (AS) now?
and the masih maood we belive in came excalty at the start of 14th century

it has all been put very well by my dear behna ^^ above and by destino as well

By LUX:

honey, please try not to post in bold, and leave no excessive space after every 20 words, it's very distractive to the eye. I have glued it together for you this time. thanks.

This post has been edited by LuXoR: Jun 27 2004, 05:53 PM

[pakistani_pwince...]

By LUX:

Please control your temper. I think it's better you not participate here, since you seem to encounter difficulty comprehending the reason behind this debate's existence. Sorry.

This post has been edited by LuXoR: Jun 27 2004, 05:57 PM

[mehmoodtily]

OK FINAL WARNING DO NOT GET OFF TOPIC OR YOU WOULD BE BANNED

This post has been edited by vitalsignsguy: Jun 27 2004, 04:42 PM

[mehmoodtily]

Asslamaualikum,

Sorry for so many replys.

Look at this hadith

You (Hazrat Ali) are related to me as Aaron was related to Moses (pbuh). But no Apostle will come after me.
(Bukhari, Muslim Musnad recorded a similar hadith ending in 'Behold there is no prophethood after me.')


So did Aaron brought a new sharia? No. Thus in this hadith, it is clear that there will be no prophets with or without new sharia.

Visit http://www.yaanabi.com/khtam-e-nabuwat_hadith.htm

for other Hadiths regarding this matter.

Mehmood

[beaitabari]

By LuX:

You said following to mehmoodtily:

"dont give us sites see the proper Holy Quran and Hadiths of our Prophet Hazoor (SAW)...." <<< The indication of this authentic Site by MT is reasonable as it is based on Qur'an and Hadith. He did add his personal observation to the content of the site and elaborated on such, therefore I feel decision on a links unnecsessity for indication should be left to the Administration.

...

This is my final Warning to You. Please stick to the topic. The topic is NOT about the validity of stigmatization as Muslim or Non-Muslim, rather, it is about the Finality of Prophethood. Hope you understand.

This post has been edited by LuXoR: Jun 27 2004, 06:06 PM

[mehmoodtily]

Assalamuaalaikum to all Muslims and hello to qadianis/ahmadis/non muslims


The website gave a summary of what is found in hadiths. Following are the hadiths:

(From Abu Dawood Book 36)

Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatimah. Abdullah ibn Ja'far said: I heard AbulMalih praising Ali ibn Nufayl and describing his good qualities.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead a prominent nose. He will fill the earth will equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.

(Rule for 7 years...)

Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin:
AbuIshaq told that Ali looked at his son al-Hasan and said: This son of mine is a sayyid (chief) as named by the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), and from his loins will come forth a man who will be called by the name of your Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and resemble him in conduct but not in appearance. He then mentioned the story about his filling the earth with justice.



LINK:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ud/036.sat.html


So Name, family linage, birthplace

And Imam Mehdi will fight against injustices (Not like ghulam qadiani who discouraged jihad)

[mehmoodtily]

Sorry my mistake. I was just trying to say that mga is not Imam Mehdi. No more comments on this.

Again accept my appologues

Mehmood

[crazay]

Wa'alaykamus Salam!

This is in response to destino. On the onset i'd like to mention that ive enjoyed reading your two postz! They were well-organized, but i must disagree with your conclusion drawn.

I disagree with 2 main statements. First, you stated following:

ONE:

[crazay]

I am going to dedicate this post to one very important Quranic ayat, which both luxor and destino have quoted, but both with different insight.

[crazay]

(sorry, ^^^^^ gone too long, hope you're still alive!)

In order to lay particular emphasis upon this point Allah observes: (Khatim Al-Nabbiyeen) (and i should mention that the above and what is to come does touch on the statement destino brought forth:

[crazay]

I will come back tomorrow to touch on destino's second part and/or post.

Jazakz for reading.

[atherzaidi]

DID YOU NOT READ WHAT LUX WROTE IN THE FIRST POST......NOT TO GO OFF TOPIC, IF YOU DO NOT HAVE NYTHING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE DEBATE YOU ARE MORE THEN WELCOME TO STAY OUT

This post has been edited by vitalsignsguy: Jun 28 2004, 09:01 AM

[insha_ji]

CARAZY

[insha_ji]

Khatama Allahu AAala quloobihim waAAala samAAihim waAAala absarihim ghishawatun walahum AAathabun AAatheemun

2:7 Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).



Now setting a seal on the heart and hearings means that no matter how much they hear, it will not make a difference but it cannot mean last heart or hearing. His heart will continue to beat and he will continue to hear, but his hearing and heart beats will not make a difference to his understanding. In the same way, Islam is complete, it has been sealed, but just as the blood flows through the heart after being sealed, it does not mean a new teacher cannot come to teach the same things.



Khitamuhu miskun wafee thalika falyatanafasi almutanafisoona

83:26 The seal thereof will be Musk: And for this let those aspire, who have aspirations:



If someone is given the seal of musk, it does not mean that anyone else cannot wear the same fragrance. In neither examples can the word khatam possibly mean last in any sense.


.................. In the holy quran when ever the word khatama is used it always ment Seal so u cant just change the meaning of word accordint to ones desire....

[YankeesFan]

[insha_ji]

nice reply yankees fan,,,

lets stick to topic dont drift away.

Jazakallah

[YankeesFan]

"O people, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. I leave behind two things: the QURAN and my example the SUNNAH; if you follow these you will never go astray."
Alhamdu lillah, another true prophecy by prophet Muhammad(saw). No new major faith has arisen since.

The argument for the meaning of the word “Seal” is flawed and ridiculous. The word worthy of debate is kha'tam

This post has been edited by YankeesFan: Jun 28 2004, 12:02 PM

[insha_ji]

yankee
The argument for the interpretation of the word “Seal” is flawed and ridiculous. The word worthy of debate is kha'tam

........................

So please shed some light and enlighten us. a little correction if you look the word its not Khatam its Khatama

a hadith in this regard

Once Hazret Ali bin Abu Talib (ra) passed nearby Hazret Abu Abdur Rehman who use to teach Hazret Hasan and Husain (ra), Said to him
"teach them Khatamanabiyyeen with voval A on Ta"
(DurreMansoor Vol 5 Page 386)

So in short the word is KHATAMA not Khatam

[rehanshaikh]

[rehanshaikh]

I apologize in advance if the parts of this post offend soem readers....BUT I BELIEVE THIS POINT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT FORTH.


I found the following content at an Ahmadiyah information site....here is the source.INFO

The "Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam" (called by Muslims everywhere as "Qadianism") was established, in 1889, by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani (1835 - 1908) in a small Punjabi village of India. Mirza Ghulam Qadiani’s family were in the service of the British colonial powers and, to his dying days, Mirza Ghulam openly declared his allegiance to the British imperialism. In fact, the culmination of his service to foreign power was his declaration that resistance to oppressors (Jihad) -- as ordained in the Holy Quran by God -- had become unIslamic!


How can some one who clains to be the Prophet of Allah openly refute Allah's command.


When Allah clearly called upon the muslims in the quran to strive in his way...then how can some one who claims to have the words of god himself call this striving UNISLAMIC


Would you follow a scientist who says despite all evidence the EArth is flat.....No you would call him a crock and ignore his ramblings....for this man cannot be a scientist


SO why would you follow a person who calls himself a Prophet when he so clearly and openly defies the very God whose message he allegidly brings.....No you would call him a CROCk and ignore his ramblings as well......for surely this man cannot be a prophet.

[rehanshaikh]

AND TO PUT THE ICING ON THE CAKE


THe most clear of all evidence for the finality of prophethood comes in the Quran it self.

HEre is the literal translation of SURAH AL MAIDA...VERSE 3

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."


Islam was perfected for all to follow 1300 years beforethe advent of quadianism or Ahmediyaa movement.....The QURAN HAD REMAINED UNCHANGED FOR OVER 1300 years before the advent of Quadianism.....The seerah of the prophet had been authenticated, preserved and Available to all for guidance for 1300 years before the advent of these falacies.....AND ALLAH ALMIGHTY HIMSELF HAD STAMPED OUT ANY ARGUMENT IN SUPPORT OF QUADIANISM 1300 years BEFORE THE ADVENT OF QUADIANISM........if this doesnot prove that Ahmediyah movement is a falacie and that MIrza's prophethood was a sham then i don't know what would.