Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth, Seek the answers of your question. Options

[insha_ji]

Any divide between revelation and rationality, religion and logic has to be irrational. If religion and rationality cannot proceed hand in hand, there has to be something deeply wrong with either of the two. Does revelation play any vital role in human affairs? Is not rationality sufficient to guide man in all the problems which confront him? Numerous questions such as these are examined with minute attention.

All major issues which intrigue the modern mind are attempted to be incorporated in this fascinatingly comprehensive statute. Whatever the intellectual or educational background of the reader, this book is bound to offer him something of his interest. It examines a very diverse and wide range of subjects including the concept of revelation in different religions, history of philosophy, cosmology, extraterrestrial life, the future of life on earth, natural selection and its role in evolution. It also elaborately discusses the advent of the Messiah, or other universal reformers, awaited by different religions. Likewise, many other topical issues which have been agitating the human mind since time immemorial are also incorporated.

The main emphasis is on the ability of the Quran to correctly discuss all important events of the past, present and future from the beginning of the universe to its ultimate end. Aided by strong incontrovertible logic and scientific evidence, the Quran does not shy away from presenting itself to the merciless scrutiny of rationality. It will be hard to find a reader whose queries are not satisfactorily answered. We hope that most readers will testify that this will always stand out as a book among books—perhaps the greatest literary achievement of this century.

The link to this book is:



http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revel...tion/index.html

[Samira Saeed]

Thru out history there has always been some guy, who'd claim that either HE or some1 is a superior being, thus devouting a cult following. All this done to have a form of control. Thats been the last 5000 years of human history in a nutshell. - Samira Saeed.

A cult is a religion thats in minority, one wonders if the MAJOR religions should also be classified as cults, only they are popular cults. - Samira Saeed.

[Destino]

QUOTE

Originally posted by Samira Saeed             Thru out history there has always been some guy, who'd claim that either HE or some1 is a superior being, thus devouting a cult following. All this done to have a form of control. Thats been the last 5000 years of human history in a nutshell. - Samira Saeed. .

Human civilization progressed in knowledge and morality, thanks to those "cults". Thanks to those "guys", mankind is better off then they were 5000 years ago. Apart from those who dont believe in God/dont want to believe in God anymore, who are trying to loose the tremendous gains we have made over this period.
Please Prove that religion has not been the major driving force behind the cultural and intellectual evolution of man..

[Samira Saeed]

QUOTE

Originally posted by Destino             QUOTE Originally posted by Samira Saeed             Thru out history there has always been some guy, who'd claim that either HE or some1 is a superior being, thus devouting a cult following. All this done to have a form of control. Thats been the last 5000 years of human history in a nutshell. - Samira Saeed. . Human civilization progressed in knowledge and morality, thanks to those \"cults\". Thanks to those \"guys\", mankind is better off then they were 5000 years ago. Apart from those who dont believe in God/dont want to believe in God anymore, who are trying to loose the tremendous gains we have made over this period. Please Prove that religion has not been the major driving force behind the cultural and intellectual evolution of man..

Religion was there governing when there were no governments, we've matured, aged, we developed governments over time, religion went as far as it can take us. Its time to get out of the cradle.

Jab botalain khali ho jaya kerti hain to unko phenk diya kerte hain.

[Destino]

Its not bottle we are depending on to quench our thirst. ITs the rain. We need it every season. Guidence from God is like this rain. Even your bottles need this rain to be refilled.
Ok, bring on a atheist Governemnt. And even if they Dont have the name of God in its constitution, it surely will follow the same moral principles to run an effectively progressvie and peacefull society.

[insha_ji]

Already cirticizing sameera with out reading the book.

Human civilazation advance because of religion. If there was no Religion humans will still be 5000 years back.

[Prince Ali]

insha and Destino, STOP THE SPREAD OF YOUR FALSE RELIGION.
DON'T TRY TO PLAY WITH BELIEFS OF TRUE MUSLIMS, AND STOP DECPTING OTHERS AS BEING MUSLIMS.

To my fellow muslims, the website these people give reference to is a Qadiani site. We better stay away from it.

The Qadianis claim that Prophet Muhammad was destined to come down into the world two times, first in Makkah and this prophethood lasted 1300 years, and secondly in Qadian, at the start of fourteenth Hijra in the incarnation of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Therefore in their opinion, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the reincarnation of Muhammad ur Rasulullah and consequently the Qadianis think of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as Muhammad ur Rasulullah in their minds when reciting the Kalima-e-Tayyiba. This is veiled Kufr'.

Mirza Bashir Ahmad Qadiani from his Al Fasl, p.l58:
"The promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) iS Muhammad ur Rasulullah himself who was reincarnated in the world for propagation of Islam. erefore, we do not need a new Kalimah. Yes, if somebody else would have reborn instead of Muhammad ur Rasulullah then this need (to have a new Kalimah) would have arisen"

These guys consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be equal in status to our Prophet (SAW). Their prophet has interpreted Quran according to what was "revealed" to him from Allah.

[Prince Ali]

These guys have a habit of telling lies and deceptions.

So I expect the kind of response they will give to this post.

However, I do not have enough time to answer their questions.

I just wanted to warn my fellow Muslims of their deceptions.

These two people have now started to propagate their false religion here on muziqpakistan. :angry

[insha_ji]

Prince Ali, i believe thats not the topic under disucssion. If u have anything to say according to the topic do so, Stop promoting hatred among people. Any objections u have u can start another thread. Try to stik to the Topic. which normaly people in this forum do not konw how to .

[Prince Ali]

QUOTE

Originally posted by insha_ji             Prince Ali, i believe thats not the topic under disucssion. If  u have anything to say according to the topic do so, Stop promoting hatred among people. Any objections u have u can start another thread. Try to stik to the Topic. which normaly people in this forum do not konw how to .

One of the rules of this forum says that there should be no Shia-Sunni discussions.

Now if shia-sunni discussions are banned here, then why should the Muslim-Qadiani discussions be allowed here?

You gave reference to a Qadiani website WITHOUT telling Muslims that it is a Qadiani website. This is called DECEPTION. But I am not complaining about it, because you guys have been doing this for a 100 years now.

And I did NOT say anything out of hater. Telling Muslims that Qadianis believe thier false prophet to be equal in status to Muhammad is NOT spreading hater. It is spreading the Truth.

About "sticking to topic". Well, that is EXACTLY what my objection is. Why are you starting topics related to spread of Qadianism?
Instead of asking me "sticking to topic", you should not STARTED such topic in the first place.

[Tufail]

Brother Prince Ali, Assalamo Alaikum
Although we believe that the Holy Prophet saw was the last and the greatest of the Prophets, who brought the last and also the greatest of the laws, we believe that there is no new law that could come into play. However, what could happen is that there could be a reviver of the faith. Indeed, if the ka'aba that Adam (as) built was the last, would there be any new need for a law or house of God? However, men of Allah came after Adam, like Moses (as) and the Holy Prophet (saw)

Our beloved Master, the Holy Prophet (saw), brought the greatest and the last of laws, which was the complete finality of the evolution of spiritual knowledge.

You are misleading people by even trying to say that we believe that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadian was a "reincarnation." There can be no reincarnation of the Holy Prophet (saw). He was the highest of the Prophets. However, what we can have is a prophet, who is a reflection of his dear Master (saw), and a reviver of the faith, as we believe Hazrat Ahmad (as) to be. He is a reviver, just like Isa (as) was to Musa (as).

Isn't it said that in the time that Imam mahdi will descend, people will have little respect for the Quran? Isn't it said that in the time that he will descend, there will be little respect for knowledge?

There are very few books written on scientific concepts like Evolution by Muslim Scholars that hold verses and indeed interpretations from the Quran. Also, there is a chapter, on the the nuclear holocaust and how all of the modern things have been prophecised in the Qu'ran. If not the entire book, just read the single chapter on the Nuclear Holocaust.

It will not take you long, and if you read it, you will not automatically become an Ahmadi Muslim. However, it will only bring some knowledge to you, when you have read that chapter, you can decide on whether the knowledge that you have been given is for the good or for the bad.
Chapter on Nuclear Holocaust
May Allah bless you,
Allah Hafiz
Tufail

[Prince Ali]

QUOTE

Originally posted by Tufail You are misleading people by even trying to say that we believe that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadian was a \\"reincarnation.\\" There can be no reincarnation of the Holy Prophet (saw). He was the highest of the Prophets. However, what we can have is a prophet, who is a reflection of his dear Master (saw), and a reviver of the faith.

I know you wont call it reincarnation. You will have your own terminoligies. But calling Mirza a \"reflection\" of our Prophet is itself worthy of declaring you non-Muslims.

QUOTE

Isn't it said that in the time that Imam mahdi will descend, people will have little respect for the Quran? Isn't it said that in the time that he will descend, there will be little respect for knowledge? There are very few books written on scientific concepts by Muslim Scholars that hold verses and indeed interpretations from the Quran. Also, there is a chapter, on the the nuclear holocaust and how all of the modern things have been prophecised in the Qu'ran. If not the entire book, just read the single chapter on the Nuclear Holocaust. It will not take you long, and if you read it, you will not automatically become an Ahmadi Muslim. However, it will only bring some knowledge to you, when you have read that chapter, you can decide on whether the knowledge that you have been given is for the good or for the bad. Chapter on Nuclear Holocaust

1. Kid! This is music website, not a \"munazira\" website. So I am not going to start answering your beliefs and practices.
2. You need to be reminded again that even shia-sunni discussions are banned here, so Muslim-Qadiani discussions are a far cry.
3. You guys consider Mirza to be equal in status to Prophet Muhammad, this is enought to call you non-Muslim.

QUOTE

May Allah bless you, Allah Hafiz Tufail

I hope the same blessing to you. I hope you understand the deceptions of that one-eyed man.

[Tufail]

Assalamo Alaikum

QUOTE

I know you wont call it reincarnation. You will have your own terminoligies. But calling Mirza a \\"reflection\\" of our Prophet is itself worthy of declaring you non-Muslims.

That is incorrect. There has never been a mother, and there never ever will be that will give birth to a being like the Holy Prophet (saw). I swear, that we believe that Hazrat Ahmad (as) was only a reviver of the faith of the Holy Prophet (saw), nothing else. How can a reviver be the same as the one who brought this great law of Islam?

QUOTE

1. Kid! This is music website, not a \\"munazira\\" website. So I am not going to start answering your beliefs and practices.

LOL....Prince Ali, please, if you have the time to read through that link only. I did not start a Munazara with you. I said, that if you click on the link and read through, you may learn something, whether that be good or bad is upto you. And besides, this is the religous forum of the Music website .
May Allah Bless you,
Allah Hafiz
Tufail

[insha_ji]

Mr Prince Ali.

No one was doing munizra here, until you showed up with your alligation style. We were discussing an issue and thats all. So mind taking your comments somewhere else.

[Prince Ali]

QUOTE

Originally posted by Tufail That is incorrect. There has never been a mother, and there never ever will be that will give birth to a being like the Holy Prophet (saw). I swear, that we believe that Hazrat Ahmad (as) was only a reviver of the faith of the Holy Prophet (saw), nothing else. How can a reviver be the same as the one who brought this great law of Islam?

1. off course KMGA was not able to bring a religion like Islam, for the simple reason that he was a liar.
2. Off course, you will not accept it here. That is why I call you deceptors. But read what I posted earlire from Mirza Bashir's book.

Mirza Bashir Ahmad Qadiani from his Al Fasl, p.l58:
\"The promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) iS Muhammad ur Rasulullah himself who was reincarnated in the world for propagation of Islam. erefore, we do not need a new Kalimah. Yes, if somebody else would have reborn instead of Muhammad ur Rasulullah then this need (to have a new Kalimah) would have arisen\"

QUOTE

And besides, this is the religous forum of the Music website .

So let it be that way. DON'T MAKE IT A \"MUNAZIRA\" FORUM OF A MUSIC WEBSITE.

If shia-sunni discussions could be banned then so should the muslim-qadiani discussions.

QUOTE

May Allah Bless you, Allah Hafiz Tufail

I hope you the same. But it is upto you yourself to realize the Truth.

I don't have enough time giving answers to each and every Qadiani on this website. So bye bye.

[insha_ji]

Prince Ali dont be such ignorant. If u want to have discussion ur more then welcome to join us at

www.ahmadiyya.com

we also have a forum there. So dont spoil the mood of this thread. Have any alligations or question just post it there. We also dont like to waste our time as well.

[Tufail]

Brother, we are moving away from the issue very fast. If you are at all interested (either postively or negatively) why don't you spend just a few minutes reading through the link. And then tell us what you think. It would be nice of you. Hatred only causes one thing: hatred.

That quote you presented, it shows that he is only a reflection, he is not the same person. If he was as equal to the Holy Prophet (saw) then would he not have equalled things by bringing a new Qu'ran (nauzobillah) Your point is invalid.

All it takes is a few minute. This is a discussion forum, and we are presenting a new book that is online. That is it. You cannot stand from a distance and say that all you are is a fake. Perhaps it would be better that you study one piece of Ahmadi Muslim literature, rather than anti-ahmadi material, which is fueled by hate.

Musailma was a fake Prophet. He was destroyed. Had we been fake, we would have been destroyed too. Don't think that you are responsible for saving innocent Muslims. Only Allah is.

May Allah Bless you

[Prince Ali]

QUOTE

Originally posted by insha_ji             Prince Ali dont be such ignorant. If u want to have discussion ur more then welcome to join us at www.ahmadiyya.com     we also have a forum there. So dont spoil the mood of this thread. Have any alligations or question just post it there. We also dont like to waste our time as well.

IF SHIA-SUNNI DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE THEN MUSLIM-QADIANI DISCUSSIONS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ALSO.

YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT STARTED THIS THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[ozkhan1]

I suggest we stick to the topic of discussion as Insha said. We are all Pakistanis here, sunni, shia, qadiani etc etc only serve to create differencees within us.

Please let me remind you the TOPIC OF HOT DEBATE on this forum for past couple of days has been GOD, not his Prophets. PLEASE, lets not start another wild goose chase here and let the atheists present their arguments and let those who believe in God counter them with their own references. The site Prince Ali is so uncomfortable with might be a Qadiani site but we are only interested in references about the Almighty on that site not those related to Mirza Ghulam and their ideology. etc etc.

[insha_ji]

QUOTE

Originally posted by Prince Ali             QUOTE Originally posted by insha_ji             Prince Ali dont be such ignorant. If u want to have discussion ur more then welcome to join us at www.ahmadiyya.com     we also have a forum there. So dont spoil the mood of this thread. Have any alligations or question just post it there. We also dont like to waste our time as well. IF SHIA-SUNNI DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE THEN MUSLIM-QADIANI DISCUSSIONS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ALSO. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT STARTED THIS THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Naach na jaane Angun Tariha.....

thats all i can say on this...
You are trying your best to make it look like one, but believe me its not .

[Tufail]

Brother Prince Ali, we are not attacking anyone. We are only providing our stuff, and it would be nice that if we could discuss this in the proper way. However, this would not be so if you started attacking us by saying that all discussion should be banned. At this rate, the religion forum at MP.com will soon be shut.

As I said before, if our teachings are a fake and fraud then Allah will destroy is. If he so wills. Do not think yourself to be his representative. Many people have tried to destroy us and utterly failed and been destroyed Just read through one piece of our material, and the book we are talking about:
Chapter on Nuclear Holocaust
You will gain knowledge, whether it be positive or negative, you can decided It is a simple request.

[Prince Ali]

QUOTE

Originally posted by Tufail             Brother, we are moving away from the issue very fast. If you are at all interested (either postively or negatively) why don't you spend just a few minutes reading through the link. And then tell us what you think. It would be nice of you.

As I said, there is no point discussing your \"topics\" here.

IF SHIA-SUNNI DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE THEN MUSLIM-QADIANI DISCUSSIONS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ALSO.

QUOTE

Hatred only causes one thing: hatred.

Where did you see hater in my posts? They are the FACTS. And the fact is that you guys have been proved non-Muslim by Government of Pakistan.

Is it hater?

QUOTE

That quote you presented, it shows that he is only a reflection, he is not the same person. If he was as equal to the Holy Prophet (saw) then would he not have equalled things by bringing a new Qu'ran (nauzobillah) Your point is invalid.

1. Ibrahim did NOT bring any new book, yet he is higher in status than Musa.
2. If you think this point is invalid then you should call Mirza Bashir, instead of complaining to me.

QUOTE

All it takes is a few minute. This is a discussion forum, and we are presenting a new book that is online. That is it.

Well, you DECEPTED Muslims by NOT telling them in the first place that it is a Qadiani website.
If you are too enthusiastic about this new book then you should give its reference on your own websites, rather than pretending to be Muslims and presenting a book spreading Qadianism. AND THAT IS MY POINT.

IF SHIA-SUNNI DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE THEN MUSLIM-QADIANI DISCUSSIONS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ALSO.

QUOTE

You cannot stand from a distance and say that all you are is a fake. Perhaps it would be better that you study one piece of Ahmadi Muslim literature, rather than anti-ahmadi material, which is fueled by hate.

Want me to repeat that sentence about M-Q discussions again?

QUOTE

Musailma was a fake Prophet. He was destroyed. Had we been fake, we would have been destroyed too.

If not being destroyed is the confirmation of truth, then Bahai should have been destroyed also. But it is spreading faster than Qadianism. So your point is invalid.

QUOTE

Don't think that you are responsible for saving innocent Muslims. Only Allah is.

Another attempt to decept!
Allah only shows the righteous way to people. Now it is upto us to follow whichever course we want to.
Nowhere has Allah taken responsibility to save people from wrong paths like Qadianism.

QUOTE

May Allah Bless you

I hope the same to you.

[LuXoR]

Kindly abstain from any sort of debate!

In any event, i WOULD like people to give REFERENCE SOURCE(s) to the LINK(s) they provide!

We should NOT stigmatize each other as kaafirs, however it is to my understanding that almost every sunni would not prefer reading stuff from other "sects" & vice versa (and be it mainstream islam!). This is not meant to insult anybody, but a kind request to mention where you got your source from, so that people are left FREE to CHOOSE if they want to go ahead and read it or not. This should eliminate future heated arguments!

Thank You

[insha_ji]

Thanks LuXor..

I was waiting for that statement.. I hope prince Ali understands the rules.

[Prince Ali]

QUOTE

Originally posted by insha_ji             Thanks LuXor..   I was waiting for that statement.. I hope prince Ali understands the rules.

The rule says:

IF SHIA-SUNNI DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE THEN MUSLIM-QADIANI DISCUSSIONS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ALSO.

How many times do you want me to post this same message? Or do you want me to SPELL it for you?

Do you want a debate?

[insha_ji]

again i will repeat how hard is this to undersatnd.

Prince Ali dont be such ignorant. If u want to have discussion ur more then welcome to join us at

www.ahmadiyya.com

we also have a forum there. So dont spoil the mood of this thread. Have any alligations or question just post it there. We also dont like to waste our time as well.

[LuXoR]

I mentioned previously that from now on it would be helpful if people could list their references. This will clearly state from whatever sect's source it comes from, THUS we would not need to argue about anything anymore!

If people are old enuff to sit behind the PC and come here, i am certain they'll be smart enuff too, to judge what's best for them, and whether or not they wish to access a Qadyani, shia, sunni, or whatever site/link.

peace

[Tufail]

Prince Ali, just read the link:
Chapter on Nuclear Holocaust
It is from our website. Your time may be better used if you tried to read that, rather than repeating "No Qadiani-Muslim" Discussions. We too are muslims. There is an explantion of a few verses of the Qu'ran in that link. It is the same Qu'ran that the Holy prophet (saw) brought. I have repeated this request again and again. It is within the topic too

[Samira Saeed]

Look Prince Ali. We know its from a Qadiyani Source. I am not worried about their implications, I am merely reading the quotations. I suggest u do the same and use them in context of this Topic, rather than use this thread for Ahmadi/Sunni/Shia/72 + sect islamic discussions. You have something to say, then plz do so in a respectable manner rather than lashing out against anyone. btw. such hate threads are not permitted, be it shia/sunni, or the validity of Ahamdi branch of Islam.

And for anyone else, please refrain from replying to ANYTHING thats offtopic. If u stick on topic no one will have a chance to say something about it. Ofcourse if this carries on then the thread gets locked, we all are happy, and a new one is created. Its your choice people.

[insha_ji]

lets lock this thread and we start a fresh new discussion.